Group Pattern questions

[galafrone]

hi all, once again here i am with 2 questions concerining the group pattern and talents

1) can you wave a group pattern thread to durability ? (i will say no, but wanted some other opinions)
if yes, you basically get 5 ranks of durability plus the 15 you can buy ?

2) you can of course weave a thread to thread weaving.
that thread push up the ranks of your regular thread weaving for casting purposes and presumably for weaving purposes.
but if you have say 5 ranks of the regular talent and 2 ranks of one group pattern thread, your TOTAL ranks for Threads is 5 or 7 for threading purposes ?

i mean, if you want tie yourself to object, places and persons (or the group) you have a maximum thread number of 5 or 7 ?
and the maximum rank of those threads is 5 or 7 ?

so basically having a group pattern 2 rank thread to your thread weaving, brings to 7 the effective value of the thread weaving for threads purposes or it stays at 5 ?

[Anunnaki]

Hiya,

1) Yes, you can weave a Group Pattern Thread to Durability.

2) 7 (6 is not enough; 8 is too much... sorry, Monty Python moment there).

Do bear in mind that any bonuses are only applied when the character is pursuing the goals of the group... Just a reminder.

Take kaer, James

[galafrone]

thanks James, so the investment is pretty straightforward, since both abilities raise your group efficiency by a lot.
of course when you arent in group, or arent pursuing group business, you cant use them so the investment has to be really careful.
but meh, is hard to say no (expecially to durability)

[galafrone]

Also, following that line

1) let's say we have a PC with rank 5 thread weaving and rank 2 group pattern thread
he is using all his 5 + 2 threads on various stuff (say 5 group pattern threads, 1 weapon, 1 shield)
2) he raises his thread weaving rank from 5 to 6 then to 7
he can "unweave" his 2 threads he got from the group pattern thread and weave them to the new ranks he has got ?
he loses the LP he put on the 2 and has to spend the legend point again, but at the end he is "safe" and can use those 2 threads in any activity he wants

2) also, can someone unweave a talent ?
i mean, i take a talent option at 3rd circle, that later i find is not useful
can i "dispose" of that talent or i am "engaged" to it until my death ?

[Tanthalas]

The idea of weaving threads to up your Threadweaving talent does make for some slightly more complicated book-keeping.

To address your questions:
1) Threads weaved from your pattern to others can be un-weaved at any time. I do not believe that there is a check involved when doing this voluntarily, but there are also a variety of higher level attacks that can do similar things. So yes, in your example the adept can drop his weave whenever he wants after upping his thread weaving and lose only LP spent on that thread.

2) There is nothing in the rules about 'forgetting' talents to free up options. I think rules as written pretty heavily imply that an option, once chosen, can never be un-chosen. However, from a GMing stand point, I don't really see any problem with allowing your players to 'forget' the talent, and probably all of the LPs that they have already spent on it. This seems like it would occur rarely enough that it should be managed on a case by case basis. Unhappy players make for unhappy games, but munchkin players looking to upgrade talents every other session can make for something equally unpleasant.

However, this does lead me to my own question...lets use Galafrone's example of a PC with 5 personal ranks in Threadweaving and a rank 2 thread to the group to up Threadweaving. So he has 7 ranks when aiding his group and 5 when he is not. If all of those threads are out on objects or pattern items, clearly that means two of the PCs threads only function when he gains the benefit of his group. At which point does the PC choose which threads are which? Every time an action falls outside of the parameter of the group does he decide what turns off? Is it semi-permanently allotted when he weaves? What if he then ups his rank?

To make the matter more complicated, what if we take that same PC and say he has 7 rank 7 threads out. When he loses his group what happens to the rank 7 threads? Do they drop to his un-grouped rank 5? Do they cease functioning all together? Would they turn back on if he can get his Threadweaving back to 7?

Just food for thought.

[galafrone]

i have the same doubts/questions Tanthalas

[kosmit]

Hmmm... So when I have Thread Weaving at Rank 5 and with help of Group Pattern I will weave 2 Threads to it and then spend some LP to raise it to lvl 6 it won't stack, and I won't have Thread Weaving at Rank 8? (6+2 from group pattern)

[galafrone]

you will kosmit.
the group pattern thread adds to the existing rank (so 5 +2 will become 6 + 2)
the real problem is this
i am at 5 + 2
so i can have 7 thread actives (2 of them useable only with group activities or related to it) and those threads can have up to 7 ranks (when possible)
let's say i have a legendary sword, with 8 possible ranks
when i am at 5+2 i can have up to 7 ranks threaded, but i can use the last 2 only when involved in group-related activities
if i raise my thread weaving from 5 to 6, that 6th rank, previously useable only for group related activities will become "STANDARD"

At least is what i think it should be..

[Avantio]

I was fairly certain that the bonus ranks to threadwaving could not be used to weave more threads, Only help with tests and incease the maximum level of threads. So Having 5+2 TW I can have 5 different threads, max rank 7 each. When I lose the boost of +2, all my threads become rank 5 untill I raise TW rank back to 7 by another boost or raising talent rank.

[galafrone]

it has sense tbh
you remember in wich edition it was placed this clarification ?