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FASA Games, Inc. • Steel thought
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Steel thought

Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:32 pm
by Taarnish
Dose a target need to be aware that a spell is being cast against them in order to use steel thought?

I ask because if an archer uses direction arrow, his target will not know he is being targeted by the ability. So could he use steel thought?

Re: Steel thought

Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:47 pm
by arma
Normally, no.
These tests at a distance may be an exception you may want to make for your game, but the rules technically allow using Steel thought.

Re: Steel thought

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:37 am
by Taarnish
Does this then mean that an archer can kill a target who has steel thought by repeatedly using direction arrow. As steel thought is automatically activated and it costs strain when used an archer could just use direction arrow repeatedly to reduce his targets hits through strain.

The reason I ask this questions because the example of steel thought says that the target "realises" he is in peril and so used steel thought. That would suggest that he is aware that he is being magically assaulted. The ability description also says tha the power works similar to avoid blow which can't be used if blind sided or surprised.

Re: Steel thought

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:18 pm
by arma
It doesn't automatically activate. If it doesn't say otherwise, you get to choose.
(Which means you actually know when someone is trying something on you...)

Re: Steel thought

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:03 pm
by Taarnish
But if the adept is not aware that a spell has been cast against her/him then are they not surprised, which prevents them from taking any action, including free actions.

Re: Steel thought

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:34 am
by Crusader
As said, it's a snafu in the rules. The player gets to chose. In addition I would say that if the attempt is successful, the character is aware someone tried to target him with magic.

Re: Steel thought

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:40 am
by Taarnish
What about area effect spells.
The discription of area of effect spells refer to a 'Targeted Hex'.
Then in many AOE spell discriptions it says that the caster rolls against the highest spell defence in the area. So...three questions.

1) If the highest spell defence in the target area is an adept with steel thought can they use it, as aoe spells target a hex and not the adept and steel thought can only be used if the ADEPT is targeted?

2) If the answer to the above question is 'Yes' then if the user of steel thought is successful, does that mean that the spellcasting has failed?

3) If the answer to question 1 is 'YES', If the adept with the highest spell defence in the targeted AOE is an adept who does NOT have steel thought but there is an adept in the AOE that does have the talent, does this stop the adept with steel thought from using it as again, he/she it not being targeted?

Re: Steel thought

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:45 pm
by Damian
If a area affect spell gets the highest spell defense in the area it will work every one in that area can now use steel thought to not be affected.

Re: Steel thought

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:56 am
by Taarnish
I don't like that concept.

Steel thought has gone through some alteration since 1st edition. It's purpose originally was to protect the adept against spells that caused damage only as your Steel Thought roll replaced Mystic Armour. It was not all that good if your spell defence was low as must spells would through anyway, ignoring the adepts Mystic Armour.

Now, Steel Thought is far more useful as a talent as it increases Spell Defence whenever the adept is targeted by not inly spells, but talents and creature powers too, even when the adept is surprised. A lot like Spirit Dodge for physical attacks.

My personal view on this is that it is to strong an ability, to early in the circle sequence in its current form.

It would slot in power wise if it either had to be used preperation for a battle and lasted rank rounds and the line 'any time the adept is targeted' or it was only effective against spells and talents that attack Mystic Armour as opposed to Spell Defence. That way it would still work whenever the adept is targeted but would function as originally intended and only protect the adept from spells and talents that intend to cause direct damage.

As for area effect spells, the spells that don't allow the caster to designate targets (e.g Fireball) dont target an adept acording to the rules as written, then target an area centred on a hex, and therefore I can't understand how Steel Thought can be used. Steel Thought requires that the adept must be the target for it to work.
The exception to this would be AOE spell allows the caster to select his effected targets in the AOE. In this instance, if the caster is 'Targeting' an adept with steel thought then it should allow the 'target' to use the talent.

Re: Steel thought

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:55 pm
by Mataxes
Something of a developer's insight into the change for Steel Thought, since it was a change we talked about for the Classic books.

The original Steel Thought didn't seem to be useful enough, because it was only really useful against a narrow range of effects: spell damage that was affected by Mystic Armor. At the same time, there are talents that allowed a "dodge" against attacks against Physical Defense (Avoid Blow) and Social Defense (Resist Taunt). It made sense to have a talent that would do the same thing, except for Spell Defense.

This particular situation is different from the other two because it is possible for Spell Defense to be targeted at a much more significant distance than Physical or Social Defense -- which both are only targeted within typical "encounter" range of a few dozen yards or so. As pointed out here, Direction Arrow targets Spell Defense but has a potential range of quite some distance.

There are a couple rules tweaks you could use to limit this talent. First, have it restricted to the same 'encounter' range as Avoid Blow or similar talents.

For area effect or group targets, there are a couple of ways you could tweak it... option one, allow one of the targets to use Steel Thought to try and set the "highest" Spell Defense as the base starting point (which makes somebody with the talent a nice asset). Option two -- set the target number using base (non Steel Thought) Spell Defense, and then allow Steel Though from individuals to give them a chance to avoid the effect of the spell.

Personally, I prefer the second option, because allowing a single person with Steel Thought to protect a squad of people from harmful spell effects... is more power than the equivalent Physical/Social talents provide. An interesting knack that allows the 'group protection' would be interesting.