Air Dance questions

[crzydevil]

Well, there are a couple of problems with that scenario. First, Tiger Spring adds your rank to your initiative result, not to the step. Second, it's a combat talent. "The adept reacts more quickly than normal in combat" says the Player's Guide. Of course, how you use certain talents is entirely up to you at your table.

[galafrone]

[crzydevil]

Nice looking out. I was so hung up on the lack of combat part of the scenario that my brain completely refused to acknowledge anything else. I have an Outcast Warrior with Tiger Spring that uses it as a flat modifier to Initiative, so I'm just used to using it as such. So, thanks for reminding me of that. Either way, I assume that clears up your confusion regarding traps if Tiger Spring is off the table. Glad I could be right and wrong and helpful all at the same time.

[galafrone]

any input is a good input. It works so for me so thanks (i re-read the talent to see if i was wrong, it's helpful anyway).
so the "combat" part rules actually out any talent from the "trap initiative situation", but i still am trying to understand the procedure to works that out
reworking my example as this:
i have a duo of player characters; they walk on a trap, didnt notice it and so the trap triggers
one of the 2 is a thief with dex step 6 and 4 ranks of trap initiative total value 10.
he rolls a 10 result
the other is a very nifty elf with step 9 dex. no other talents to help him
his initiative roll is 12

if the trap initiative result is 8, both they have done an average result against it.
what is the situation ?
are they both able to take a simple action and move for their normal yards ?
the thief has trap initiative so where the "half move before triggering" steps in ?
he get a half move in yards and then, since he was able to beat it he can now move again ?

[crzydevil]

I may be interpreting this wrong, so a grain of salt is the suggested dosage.

The way that I read it, and consequently, run it is this:
1) The thief used his trap initiative to move up to half of his movement rate prior to the trap actually going off.
2) The trap goes off.
3) The very nifty elf reacts to the trap and avoids it.
4) The duo may now use their normal movement rate.

[galafrone]

it can be very correct.
my only doubts arise from the fact that the trap "initiative" is rolled 1 time only.
then (and so after we have already generated an initiative value for the trap) we check the talents (or their absence)
so the thief, having trap initiative, uses it and "beats" the trap initiative, so can move half movement from it. then he can do a normal move from that point.
after that, we have the elf beating again the trap initiative, but not having the right talent, he can just take a normal move (so he dont get the "jump" that the thief has because of the talent").
it's this the correct use of the mechanic ?

[crzydevil]

I think you've got it. If you'd like, you can always have the thief roll first, you second, and the elf last. The thief's not going to know if he succeeds until you roll anyway, but it does follow the actual order of events.

[arma]

1) Well, Tiger Spring also has a "combat clause". Like Air Dance, it's kind of a soft rule in that it's in the first sentence, which is usually more of a descriptive nature. But it's inserted in there for a reason. No use having Trap Initiative otherwise...
There's general initiative bonuses that can apply, though (Warden/Master Discipline Bonuses, bonuses from spells or items, etc.)

2) Initiative is used after the trap is triggered. E.g. you step on the pressure plate, the trap goes off, but now you can try to avoid it -- that's why it uses initiative, you try to get out of the way fast.
To use Disarm Trap, you need to find the trap, and you can then totally turn it off. You don't get to the Initiative Test in the first place.
One is if you trigger it, the other is to turn the trigger off.

[galafrone]

[Telarus_KSC]

Trap Initiative serves as an "interrupt" in my games (it can fall "within" one round if in combat, or serves to set Initiative outside of combat).

The players who win Trap Initiative can take any reasonable action (sacrificing their Standard Action for the round if necessary) to deal with the sticky situation. If that means just bailing out of the way (I have Move left this round!), or spending their Action on a Disarm Trap roll ("Wait! Don't move your foot until I've cut this wire!!!"), or getting creative ("I jam my axe in the mechanism!"), and then I take it from there.

Note also that in the Disarm rules (GMG, p. 110), it says that characters have two ways to deal with triggered traps. A raw DEX/PER (physical/magical) roll vs the Disarm Difficulty will avoid triggering the trap (the character has to declare this.. in the axe example, I'd probably use PER + Weapon Damage Step vs Disarm.... you could also use Avoid Blow I guess, in your example)... or to WIN the Trap Initiative Roll (at which point you can use your Move action for the round, or if you're a Thief you can try to deal with the trap before it causes further damage to your friends).

Hope that helps.