Treasure Awards

[Meat Puzzle]

I know recently there was a long discussion about legend points and how to award them by breaking them down into several catagories but one of these (the treasure award) made me stop and think. If most Treasure awards are the unique magic items and not things like potions and maybe blood charms what can I give out to characters in the first three circles, before they get thread weaving? I know some treasure awards come from creatures but some adventures don't allow for "creature conflicts" (at least not the few low level ones that have treasure awards) instead they are dominated by name-giver conflicts . In these cases what other ways can I work in treasure worth legend points with out just throwing items at the group that they can't even use until they advance three circles?

[ragbasti]

well most of the time it could probably suffice to just give the group contacts !
There will always be a time when they are in need of an airship to get somewhere, wouldn't it be great to be friends with a trader who has a ship + crew ?
Generally, I give my group some money and the occational friends who have a notable position in their community.

Also, not all magical treasures are unique. General treasures exist in certain numbers, so having 2 people in a group wield a spell shield would not be impossible. Also you could just reward them template magic items like the ones from the player's guide.
Until the later circles the main problems of your group should be money and general equipment. That's what they usually use their money for. Giving them either enough money or maybe befriending an alchemist or weapon-/armorsmith is reward enough in the first circles I think. When they get into the 4th circle you should plan on giving them their first Thread item, or at least make it possible for them to buy one. General and Unique Treasures I would save for circle 5+ as most of them should be found during an adventure ^^
Also try to spread those out a little, not having one chest contain an assortment of treasure which just all happen to be general treasures.
What I also like to do is hide items amidst junk ^^
The skeleton of a former adept that functions as a "boss fight" might be wearing mostly junk, but if you give that old sword a polish and maybe bring it to a weaponsmith it might just happen that this is indeed the sword of a former hero,with all the magic that comes with it.

PS: sorry for the missing structure but the second half just kinda came to me after writing my initial text xD

[Meat Puzzle]

No worries on the structure ragbasti I'm usually the worst culprit of that stuff.

I really liked your idea of giving them contacts as adventure rewards. however, I'm not sure if a contact as a treasure award would warrant a legend point award like a famous magical item or a creature trophy would. i wouldn't think that just knowing people would improve your legend. Yes you would have a lot of friends but that a lone will not make a hero or improve his legend.

[Neverbourne]

I don't think you're limited to "magical" treasure and the already listed creature treasure when considering the LP treasure award. Recovering the lost coat of arms of some noble family could count as treasure worth LP (because people would be talking about who found it). Stealing the mayor's staff of office might count as both a deed AND a treasure award. Neither of those are magical items, just unique and noteworthy.

That's my take on treasure LP awards, but maybe arma can hop in with something a little more official

[ragbasti]

Please note that LP are not tied to treasure ^^
You can be a Troubadour famous throughout barsaive for your well-written ballads and stories. That in itsself would probably get you enough LP to rise to warden level and higher (if really EVERYONE know you) and has nothing to do with treasure.
Building you legend is not at all tied to items and therefore an influential contact can be just as well as any amount of treasure.
I've played in a group where the PC go in and out of the Throalic Throne Room simply because we were part of a campaign that eventually saved the kings life - worth more than any treasure we could ever imagine ^^

Building your legend is about getting know, getting your name carried on without you being there. It's all about the tales that people tell about you ^^
These tales can be of anything you can think of


Little fun story:
One of my players was an absolute show off, telling everyone he met about his heroic deeds. Anyone who would challange him would quickly find out that those were not all empty words, even though exaggerations were definately one of his favourit ^^
This got the group into alot of trouble of course, but the Tale of Alendil the King of Alendil-Land will live on

[arma]

Well it's not a rules thing, but a fictional thing, so what do I know...

The main thing about treasure it that it's not supposed to be "merely" loot.
Loot is the usual stuff people carry about for their regular use. The few silvers an ork scorcher carries are lot, says the example. Well, maybe the ork scorcher also just stole some jewelry, that might be treasure.
Primarily, treasure is intended to be magic stuff. But you can also interpret it as trophies (many of the creature treasure can is essentially trophies and/or enchanting materials).
It can't be your mundane average item, but if the ork scorchers
- have a stash of potions
- have a boss with a special, recognizable ornate armor, even if non-magical
- went to war under a special banner
- had just completed a lengthy series of raids and you just take the spoils from them (regardless of whether you return it to the rightful owner or not)
- carry a sword treated with Forge Weapon (consider this is for low-circle characters, so it's special)
Then that may qualify as treasure.


(as for contacts... I don't know, if it was really hard to get them, I'd classify that as Deeds... sometimes a by-product of the adventure [you wouldn't count the payment for a mission treasure] ... winning the heart of the princess or thereabouts is a Deed... treasure is meant to be in the item category... although, if you won a merchant contact betting you a discount, or a special item at a later date... a contract [or an IOU] or promise may be a treasure...)

[Meat Puzzle]

Thanks everyone your answers are all a big help and gave me a large pile of food for thought.

[Telarus_KSC]

Treasure Worth Legend to me says that a certain amount of the loot should be Important Stuff (proof of defeating magical creatures, etc).

In my Barsaive/Greyhawk mashup, the PCs have recovered a crate full of black cloaks with a baleful yellow eye emblazoned on them. That was Treasure Worth Legend (because they were sent to look for that symbol... and finding it had meaning to the NPCs in town). The PCs did get a silver reward in the form of gems from the town druid, but it matched the Treasure LP award for turning in the cloaks.