windlings. why them ?

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
Mogre
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Re: windlings. why them ?

Postby Mogre » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:41 pm

The Windling in our group is a thief, so I guess that's what I expect thieves to do. A wound while flying with a usually low Strength often becomes a wound with falling with a big owie at the end.

galafrone
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Re: windlings. why them ?

Postby galafrone » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:48 pm

mine is a thief too
but the problem is to hit him (13 phi def) and if opposition hasnt any decent ranged, is basically impossible to stop him

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The_Gun_Nut
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Re: windlings. why them ?

Postby The_Gun_Nut » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:21 pm

And their total lack of ability to take or dish out massive damage is really annoying to plan for. I mean, I have to set aside entire sessions devoted to them attacking with underpowered abilities. Thank goodness flying completely offsets the disadvantages to being absolutely squishy. :D

/sarcasmoff

But seriously, I've never run into a problem with windlings in my games. If you are having trouble coming up with ways to symie the windling, might I suggest having windling NPC's to harrass the party? Let the party demolish one or two batches of windling opposition, and then use their ideas to hamper or challenge the PC windling.
There is no overkill.

Only "open fire" and "I need to reload."

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Re: windlings. why them ?

Postby Slimcreeper » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:36 pm

The windling should get out there in front a couple of times and then get sat on if that's the problem. Not every time, just enough to keep it spicy. Flies across the canyon and gets lassoed by a mobile plant. No one else can fly, he has to get out of it on his own. He'll still be a pain in your hind end, but there'll be that fear in the back to keep everything happy and slappy.

galafrone
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Re: windlings. why them ?

Postby galafrone » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:03 am

i absolutely love all your input folks :)

ragbasti
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Re: windlings. why them ?

Postby ragbasti » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:32 am

feel free to PM me at any time if you need some evil ideas :twisted:

Telarus_KSC
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Re: windlings. why them ?

Postby Telarus_KSC » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:40 am

I've played with many windling PCs (the Elementalist with a Named "Flame Weapon" Whip was nasty, as it was usually "Surprise! Disarm/trip+fire damage, fly out of range for spell threadweaving..." ). Windling Swordsmasters are also something to be wary of.

But I think a sense of narrative helps keep Windlings in line. I had lent my group Trina, a Circle 2 Windling Thief NPC (they're doing a gygaxian dungeon crawl and lacked a Thief :shock: ), and sure, they sent her in to scout out rooms.

Let's see, Giant Bats (a Swarm encounter), almost eaten by giant lizards (Ghoul Lizards played like huge geckos), and a giant Trapdoor Spider who threw her into a web and almost ate her (until the Elementalist distracted it and the Swordsmaster cut her free). Man was she cranky at the PCs.

But I had also been tracking when she was flitting around (started in the skirmish with Jub Jubs in the swamp). and she was at her 20 minute limit. I usually ask myself "How often in the last 20 minutes has this windling been flying around?". If I can count at least 4 times (once every 5 minutes or so) then it's time to start having the windling character make Toughness (diff 5, +2 for each five minutes past twenty) tests or take strain every minute.

Flight gives the player with the windling character the ability to narrate cool things like showing up randomly in the middle of combat to get a Blindside bonus, etc. Or avoiding environmental hazards which would hinder other characters. That's ok, windlings are about getting in then out with the information, using that mobility as an advantage. It can also be a disadvantage. If an inattentive windling buzzes past 3 pit traps in a row without even noticing them (either the player didn't describe the windling as bothering, or a failed Per check happeend), then comes back and reports the hallway 'all clear'.. that presents a larger problem.

Learn what things Harry a flying creature (usually wind, debris/smoke/dust, etc, things that make aerial navigation hard), and apply the Harried modifier to certain situations. The windling's movement aspects are fair if treated logically as carrying risk (and not used as an excuse to try anything). I often called for Dex checks to see if the windling can control his speed and vector enough to be "on target". If the consequence for a botched check in a situation is that the windling get's wet, then that factors into the risk decisions of the player... (I usually give environmental description clues if this is the case).

You may also want to implement the optional rule where movement takes points from your Initiative Test result (so that the windling who keeps himself "above combat" goes last). This will increase the risk of the opponent Holding their Action until the windling buzzes down, or opponents who will get a ranged attack off before the windling is close enough to attack. My Namegivers who have experience fighting windlings use the Hold Action, and Attack to Knockdown (causes Harried) combat options quite a lot. They also bring entangling weapons (there's a good reason for the standoff between the windlings of Glendwood Deep and the Iopan aligned t'skrang of House Ishkarat... ).

Windlings also bring fairly high prices in the Slave markets, and there is a trend among certain Theran House nobles to maintain a "collection". They'll run into all (if not more) of the problems which the brownies from Willow caused, &/or may even have bounties put out in or around Theran controlled territories.

Good luck in your further GMing. Glad we all could be of some help.

galafrone
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Re: windlings. why them ?

Postby galafrone » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:08 am

thanks telarus !!!
i am putting up a "black book of ways to hamper my devious windling" :)

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Re: windlings. why them ?

Postby Neverbourne » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:46 pm

Other things to consider for your particular Zoak-riding windling:

-If not combat trained, the zoak may not perform in battle the way the windling wants.
- If they windling does have a combat mount and tries to do fly-bys or dive attacks, there are serious negatives for non-calvarymen (attacking every other round in order to get charge boost, negatives to attack tests, harried pc/mount for the round). The mounted combat rules go a long way to balancing bonuses earned from being a rider,
- If you were attacked by a little man on a bat, what would you do? You'd probably swing at the biggest target (the Zoak), who is most likely easier to hit with less hitpoints (unless the thief is also a decent calvaryman).
- Knocking a windling out of the air does dmg to them, and opponents can use the "Hit to Knockdown" option just as easily as PCs can.
- Windlings might be able to fly past many obstacles (high walls, pits, etc.), but they really lack a lot in strength. A big heavy door puts a stop to most windlings (even with a 10 str, a Troll/obsidmen door would be a nightmare).
- Windlings have a severe lack of physical damage output (there weapons have low base dmg, and cant be forged more than twice). Even with surprise Strike to make up for it, they will have to go out of their way to keep earning surprise (and the SS talent states it can only be used against a single opponent once per encounter). A heavily armored foe (10+ phys armor) could easily ignore most of the dmg a non-caster windling could dish out.

I hope this helps in dealing with your windling troubles (they really are a lot of fun if you work with them rather than against them)

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The_Gun_Nut
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Re: windlings. why them ?

Postby The_Gun_Nut » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:45 pm

Regarding Surprise Strike:

The text says it only works against an opponent once per encounter unless something allows the attacker to regain surprise upon his opponent. There are multiple ways of doing this including, but not limited to: Conceal Object; Gain Surprise; or simply leaving the area, letting the opponent get distracted, then attacking again.

Surprise is much easier to come by, and lasts until the end of the attacker's turn during the round. This lets someone with multiple attacks perform multiple Surprise Strikes during his turn.
There is no overkill.

Only "open fire" and "I need to reload."


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