Alarm spell - some confusion

[galafrone]

Alarm
Threads: 1 Weaving: 8 / 17 Casting: TSD
Range: 50 yards (25 hexes) Duration: Rank + 6 minutes
Area of Effect: 4-yard (2-hex) radius from point of origin
Effect: WIL + 4
This spell alerts to the presence of intruders.
The magician points where he wants to place the alarm, gives a small shriek, and makes a Spellcasting Test against the target’s Spell Defense.
If successful, he compares his Effect Test against the Spell Defense of any living or sentient being passing within the area of effect.
If successful, the alarm goes off and shouts out a loud warning for a full minute, alerting anyone within earshot.
The magician determines the exact warning, which may not exceed a number of words equal to his Spellcasting Rank.
The spell cannot be cast on living targets

Question:
- basically the alarm is set up by the magician in a place (not a living thing) and to "place it" he has to do a spellcasting test.
that effect number is matched to the spell defense of any living or sentient being that passes the area where the spell was cast
- after the initial check (a passive one, since the spellcasting test is done only once, and then the effects of that test are compared to any being passing by)
if effectively a creature comes to the area, i as gm have to do 2 checks

1) check if the spellcasting effect number rolled at the placement of the spell beats the spelldefense of the trespasser
then
2) do an effect test (will +4) again versus the spelldefense of the trespasser, to have the alarm sound

the first roll doesnt matter how kind of result do vs the spelldefense right ? i am not interested just to have an average result (i dont see how an extraordinay my be better)
the second roll isnt affected by the first and is another indipendent roll, activated by the first roll beating the spelldefense.
if the second is ok, so the effect beats the SD the alarm goes off
if not, the alarm fails

so basically are 2 tests against the SD of the trespasser, right ?

[Slimcreeper]

Those sorts of double rolls I've always handwaved. I would run it that the first has to beat the SD of the area (typically 2 and automatic, unless the area is very corrupt or otherwise magically active) to make the spell happen, and then just use the effect test against intruder's SD.

But that is clearly house-ruled, and not an official clarification. I try to get away with as few rolls as possible.

[galafrone]

yeah, i am sort of agreein with you.
why doing 2 tests against the same SD ?
the spellcasting imho should be done against the SD of the place/area where it's placed.
the second (if the first is good) against the SD of the trespasser.

[arma]

It's not the same rolls.
You'll do the Spellcasting Test against the SD of whatever (area)* you cast it on (this normally means DN6, but there are things such as Named Places etc. which may have a higher SD). The intruder isn't even there yet.
If you are successful on the Spellcasting Test, you make an Effect Test, noting the result.
Now you wait a minute or so.
Now comes the intruder, you look down at what you noted as the Effect Test result, and compare it to his Spell Defense. Next intruder, the same thing.
So, you'll roll the dice a total of two times here, regardless of the number of intruders.
(This is all from the general rules, not the spell description. The general rules provide this framework, e.g. targeting, casting, effect test, the spell just tells you how to use them.)



* note if you read the other thread about areas, I may have used this as an example wrongly there, probably because the characteristics are on one page and the description on the next...
You can use this in multiple ways, you could cast this on an object too (the ED1 original says "object or place"), e.g. it would be "whoever comes within 4 yards of my tent pole" or "whoever enters the 8-yard diameter area that is our campsite" or something. Doesn't change what's discussed here, though.

[galafrone]

well the part i didnt understood (but now are clear) was the one regarding the spellcast against the target spell defense
the target was the area in this case.
this was the part i didnt understood
but now is clear

so, if the caster fails the first (spellcasting) he can retry ad libitum
then after some tries, he is succesfull
then he does the effect roll
if the roll is miserable, can he dispel the alarm and recast it right ?
or just cast another alarm on a surface nearby ?

[galafrone]

there are ways to have a "permanent alarm" effect ?
like a ward trap ?
and if yes, who can devise and place it ?
the same caster ?

[arma]

You can retry as long as you want, until you succeed. As with all spells.

If you have an active Alarm you're not satisfied with, you can do one of three things:
1) Dispel with the dispel magic spell (you can't just "drop" the spell, you have no control over an active spell any more as a caster unless it requires concentration), the cast again.
2) Just cast it on something else (the areas may overlap, but they don't add up, they are separate -- this can get you to cover a larger area even with multiple chances of detection; if you cast it on the four corners of a room, they can overlap in the middle, and if someone enters the middle, he goes through 4 detection zones with different effect strength)
3) cast it again on the same thing (the rules say if you use the same thing on something more than once, only the strongest is counted; this applies to talents etc. as well. the weaker effect is still there in the background, but usually doesn't make any difference any more).

For 2 and 3, keep in mind you can have the same spell active Spellcasting Rank times, e.g. to cast it on the four corners of a room, you need a rank of 4. If you want to cast it again after that, you'll have to wait until the first casting ends or is dispelled. So, there's a small limit there in that where you can't just get a better result by repeating continuously, you'll at one point have to wait, because you can cast this faster than it takes to run out.


Permanent alarms:
Yes, and that makes it much more useful.
You can use the Name Spell talent knack, or use the Enchantment rules for a more free-form approach.
All the casters have access to these technically, but you need the spell to actually use them with the spell..

[galafrone]

perfect arma, thanks a lot !