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FASA Games, Inc. • Sticky combat vs Mounted combat
Page 1 of 3

Sticky combat vs Mounted combat

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:43 pm
by Dougansf
I'm looking for an expert on the Cavalryman discipline, and thus Mounted Combat.

My group is working on a house rule to add "Sticky Movement" to the game. It would make hexes around an enemy "difficult terrain," thus double the cost of movement to leave the space.

I was concerned how that would interact with the Splitting Movement combat option, which therefore affects Mounted and Airborne Combat, and possibly Mounted Charging. I've seen mentions that Cavalryman Talents can modify Mounted Combat in some ways.

Thanks

Re: Sticky combat vs Mounted combat

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:35 pm
by Baravakar
I'm no expert on this subject at all, but it seems to me that the Trick Riding talent should come into play here. Possibly a trick riding test vs. the physical defense of the target's hex being moved thru, if successful, no movement penalty.

Re: Sticky combat vs Mounted combat

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:39 pm
by Dougansf
I know this may be anathema to the mentality of the system, but I'm trying to avoid adding another roll to the situation.

Re: Sticky combat vs Mounted combat

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:42 pm
by Mataxes
My quick-and-dirty ruling would be that 'sticky' combat doesn't apply to mounted characters moving through an area controlled by unmounted characters; the speed and/or mass of the mounted character is too great for the unmounted character to do anything about.

A mounted character could hinder an unmounted, and mounted-vs-mounted would work the same as unmounted-vs-unmounted.

Re: Sticky combat vs Mounted combat

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:43 pm
by Dougansf
Thanks. That was something we considered.

Though that then segues into oddities like a Dyre attacking without a rider. Or a Windling on a mount. Does it become a size issue instead of a mounted issue?

Re: Sticky combat vs Mounted combat

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:29 pm
by Mataxes
...

This is why I don't like this kind of thing in RPGs, to be honest.

It's turtles all the way down.

Re: Sticky combat vs Mounted combat

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:05 pm
by Razan_GM
You might want to check this link:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1600&hilit=mount+speed&start=20#p16871

I got 2 Cavalryman in our team, I was GMing for them for many years (6+ now). When I got my hands on 4ed I changed a bit rules, as in link above.
For 'sticky combat' I added 1 House Rule taken from DnD: Reaction - all characters/creatures have 1 reaction per round, if enemy is in their close combat range at the start of the round and moves away, they can make 1 additional standard attack. No other rule was necessary.

That simplified dangers of moving away from attackers. Also changes in creature movement rates made horseman hard to fight as they should be for someone on foot, but with range weapons/spells/pc cavalryman, they are not invincible.

As for Splitting Movement, if enemy is not in your close combat range at the start of the round and is using Splitting Movement, you need to have higher Initiative (PCs as heroes wins ties in Initiative) to attack him.

Cavalryman players like my changes, the other players not so much :P but they all agree its more realistic that way. After only few sessions gameplay was nice and fast.

Re: Sticky combat vs Mounted combat

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:22 pm
by Dougansf

Re: Sticky combat vs Mounted combat

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:57 am
by The Undying
Ugh ... different strokes for different folks, but I would fight tooth and nail against adding an Attack of Opportunity to Earthdawn ...

Climbing onto my soap box here a bit:

I continually find that people seem to focus pretty tightly on the 'realism' of close and ranged combat. ED isn't a combat simulator, and nearly every change that seems to enhance the 'realism' of non-spell combat has a pretty significant tendency to degrade or penalize spell combat. Add sticky combat as a default mechanic such that close combatants can run up and trap others = more likelihood your magicians will get worked. Add sticky combat as a default mechanic such that they create a zone of control = more likelihood your magicians will get worked. I get less riled up when there's a cost to these things (e.g., create a zone of control as a standard action, penalize people from leaving close combat as a close combat maneuver), but giving it up for free?

(Climbs off soap box)

Aside from all that heavy breathing, I think sticky combat is best left as a very simple thing or abandoned, because otherwise, things will slow down as the formula gets applied and people try to hedge their way out of it. Weight/size based? Momentum based? Suitability of weapon based? Talent used? The more caveats added, the more caveats welcomed.

The sticky combat that we use in my group could still apply to mounted combatants, regardless if it-s mounted-on-unmounted or mounted-on-mounted. Once you engage or are engaged in close combat, you qualify as being "Engaged" until the end of the following turn, and to leave "Engaged," it costs Strained and Harried status (meaning it must be declared before your Standard Action). This is still justifiable for unmounted-v-mounted: mounted person can harass the unmounted, making it difficult to leave, and unmounted can harass the mount, making it difficult to control for break-away.

Re: Sticky combat vs Mounted combat

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:58 pm
by Dougansf