[Ed4] Stealthy Stride talent

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
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[Ed4] Stealthy Stride talent

Postby Razan_GM » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:59 am

Using Stealthy Stride needs Simple Action so a test is made every round. Test Result is difficulty to see the adept. How do You rule it works, a test at the beginning of a round (simplest choice), or from that Adept Initiative to his initiative in next round?


So lets say Adept used talent and is invisible. Then one of 3 archers sees him. Adept got arrow in his back, he cant remove it. What happens with the arrow, is it visible for 2 other opponents that cannot see the adept, disapear, disapear when adept makes his next Stealthy Stride test.

If it doesnt disapear there is "levitating" arrow and other archers can try to shoot him (with penalties). How to rule it?
Last edited by Razan_GM on Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stealthy Stride talent

Postby Tattered Rags » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:49 am

Allow the other archers to make a new perception test, perhaps with a bonus. I'd say the magics of the Talent immediately hide the arrow. If it's a skill use, no such luck, but that isn't really relevant. Stealthy Stride isn't really meant for hiding in the open, anyway, but is for assisting the use of cover, etc. Someone using the skill is already likely deep in shadows and behind some grass, so those things would obscure the arrow anyway.

Now, if it's something like the "Nobody Here" spell, then the same rules apply, but require a sensing test before being able to do the perception test. I think I'd allow an arrow stopping mid-air to permit a sensing test. If they fail, then they are convinced their friend never actually shot an arrow and it disappears from their minds. If they pierce the illusion, they still need to see the guy hiding.

The timing of the stealthy stride test should probably be on their iniative. Remember that if they have already been seen by someone, then Stealthy Stride won't work on that person. They need to "disappear" somehow first.

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Re: Stealthy Stride talent

Postby etherial » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:22 am


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Re: [Ed4] Stealthy Stride talent

Postby Baravakar » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:43 pm


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Re: [Ed4] Stealthy Stride talent

Postby Slimcreeper » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:23 pm

I would definitely _not_ make a test every round. That would get very tedious. I would make one test and use the same result lasts as long as the adept is willing to creep along at half speed.

Hmm, but would the player just want to keep re-rolling crappy results until he or she got something good? Perhaps it should be a blind roll. Or NPCs could roll against the talent step. If the player wanted to use karma, the result of the karma roll could be added to the talent step number. Idaknow, I'm just talking. Blind roll is easiest and doesn't mess with the rules.

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Re: [Ed4] Stealthy Stride talent

Postby Telarus_KSC » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:41 am

Let the player know the result of their roll and hide opposing Perception tests ;D, it takes just as much experience to know if you (or some-one else) is doing something well, as it does to actually do that thing well. I also use the "let it ride" guideline: A roll result like that stands until there is an active change in the circumstances (a hue and cry is raised, the Thief has managed to sneak to a more advantageous hiding spot, etc).

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Re: [Ed4] Stealthy Stride talent

Postby Baravakar » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:15 pm

It seems to me that the talent should actually have a duration limit built into it. I checked the Third Edition's Silent Walk and the text is pretty much the same. If it is given a duration per activation, then extra rolls would be needed when it expires. If not, the player can make one super roll and attempt to keep it forever by always moving at half speed.

Rank Minutes seems appropriate to me.

A hidden die roll only depends on how abusive the person using the talent is trying to be.

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Re: [Ed4] Stealthy Stride talent

Postby Tattered Rags » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:40 pm

I agree with Telarus_KSC's "let it ride" guideline. Force re-rolls whenever situations change (exiting a building, going through a checkpoint, entering a camp, alarm is raised, etc.). They can happen frequently enough to warrant new rolls without worrying if a player is going to ride out a high roll indefinitely.

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Re: [Ed4] Stealthy Stride talent

Postby Slimcreeper » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:57 pm

I'm more worried about re-rolling poor results. There's no reason not to.

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Re: [Ed4] Stealthy Stride talent

Postby The Undying » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:29 pm

I'm all for hidden dice rolls. Dice are a mechanical element meant to quantify things in the game universe. However, rolls slow things down, and in the real world, we as people (and characters as entities) would not know the difference between a result of 11 and a result of 13. Especially for things that are very hard to actually gauge (and how easily can a person determine whether they've hidden themselves well when they can't see the results?), allowing the player to see the results seems like a warping of the requirement for dice to exist.

My suggestion, to accommodate Telarus's concern that a well-trained person should know whether they've done something well, is to provide qualitative feedback after a hidden roll. My guidance on the qualitative response would be that if +/- 5 of their Step (so basically, within 1 extra success/failure), tell them they're feel okay with the results. This doesn't actually tell them the results, or whether it's good or bad, but it takes into account their proficiency with the skill: a person with Step 15 in something could probably be able to tell if the results are within their relative expected results. If they've score > +5, tell them they're confident in the results, and if they've scored < -5, tell them they think they've done a poor job. In the case of Silent Stride, to be fair, yeah, someone can probably tell if they try to hide themselves in the shadow and their foot is hanging out in the sunshine. HOWEVER, if someone completely botches the roll (Rule of 1), then you should still tell them they're confident in the results.

Finally, in regards to worry about players re-rolling the results, either because they can see the dice and know they did poorly or you give them qualitative feedback, be open with them that there is a time penalty.

One way, that's a little clunky: Yes, Stealthy Stride is a Simple Action. However, it is still a Simple Action, so it must be done in a 'round' (10 seconds). Active detection is a Standard Action, so it also takes a 'round.' If the player wants to game the system because of out-of-character (OOC) knowledge (i.e., roll results), provide sufficient penalty. In the case of Stealthy Stride, tell them they can make an Awareness (or Perception if no Awareness) test to in character (IC) verify their OOC knowledge, BUT they have to beat their Stealthy Stride roll with one extra success because of their perspective (they can't see the results from the inside out). Alternatively, they can spend a minute analyzing their situation to determine that, yes, they have done a poor job, after which they can try again. All of this MAY not matter, but remind them that people are moving around during this time, meaning that guards may be looking in more advantageous angles, they miss an opportunity time in guard rotation, etc. In some cases, this may not matter, but if they're trying to sneak up behind a guard who's head it currently turned, then time is totally a factor.

Another way, that is less clunky: Be open and up front that you are house-ruling that specific Talents (e.g., Stealthy Stride) have a one minute (6 turn) cooldown. This allows the player to game the system, if they want to, but provides a reliable penalty that you as the GM can warn them about (see above about guard facing, etc).


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