Windling flight while in combat (4th edition)

[varrow]

I feel this may have been covered previously, but I can not find it so please forgive me if it has already been discussed.

The combat rules are quite clear regarding close combat swooping attacks while flying, but can I seek clarification if it is appropriate to apply the splitting movement penalties to any action performed while flying/hovering during combat, such as ranged attacks or spell casting.

My justification is that the act of flying is a sustained movement action which continues into the next round, such that (even if hovering in place) the flying creature moved before they perform their action and continues to move after they complete their action. At no point in the round is the creature ceasing their movement action, if they did they would fall.

To me this interpretation, while not being specifically stated, feels correct with the spirit of the splitting movement rules.

I would like to know how other GMs or even better the developers view this interpretation as I am about start running Earthdawn again having only recently heard about the 4th Edition (and being previously scarred by LRG editions) and half my players want to play Windlings.

Thanks
Varrow

[Razan_GM]

IMB. Windling flight is something normal for them, for 20 years of GMing ED, we used it as any other movement. With or without miniatures it works good.

[Telarus_KSC]

I agree, just as in combat a person does not just stand in place - there are constant minor adjustments to keep your opponent on line, etc - even if you remain withing the 2-yards of ground you have taken. A Windling will buzz around the "hex" they are in "semi-randomly", much like dragonflies when they are sighting a landing location.

[Mataxes]

...yeah.

Even if it isn't explicit, constantly applying the "splitting movement" penalty to a windling because of their flight is against the intent of those rules.

The very nature of rules require that things be broken up into discrete steps and pieces, even if the narrative reality is a fluid continuity. The splitting movement penalty applies for characters that -- within a single combat turn -- move --> attack --> move. Not just move --> attack or attack --> move.

One of the reasons for this is to balance out how a faster character can, in certain circumstances, be out of melee range, then close, attack, and move back out of melee range. It's not as big an issue in later editions where movement rates are more standardized (especially among Namegivers), so its mostly in mounted combat. Before ED3 though, when movement was based on Dex... it could get nasty.

[varrow]

Thanks for the replies.

I can see your points. I previous EarthDawn experience was GMing many years of 1st Edition where this may have been more of a problem and I have not really seen how it balance out in 4th Edition.

I am however slightly concerned that without viewing and classifying this as split movement ie. character is moving (hovering/flying for 0-16 yards), attacking, moving again (hovering/flying for 0 or any remaining movement) it will lead to the combat becoming extremely unbalanced and effectively handing Windling ranged combatants a free "I win" tactic or a least a free 200 round long close attack immunity with a 50 round extension option for 1 strain if they fail the toughness test.

Has anyone encountered such a scenario in their games or does generally not occur when the whole range of combat dynamics are taken into account?

I think my issue is mainly that I view Windling flight as a very strenuous activity, like someone running at their absolute fastest sprint as shown by the 20min then resting requirements and that there is no effective difference in the amount of effort required to hover for 20mins or to move 16 yards per round for 20mins. Now if you add performing actions such as firing bow/casting spells each round surely that is more strenuous then simply hovering or moving while not performing any other actions.

If the Windling was flying around up to their full movement but ending flight on the ground or a tree branch or something and then attacking I would not have a problem and would not regard it a splitting movement, however I feel if the Windling is still in the air the movement has not stopped and must be split unless the Windling is stopping to vigorously beat their wings in which case any falling damage should be resolved.

Please feel free to refute me further, I am torn between letting this issue slide and seeing how it turns out in game, but I can just foresee it becoming an unbalancing issue and I would rather establish any rule clarifications/changes before play starts as changing rule during play never goes down well.

[Dougansf]

Here's my rationale:
If a Windling moves into close combat range, but stays in the air, they are still within close combat range of their opponent.
Thus, they did not gain anything for doing a split movement attack, and should not take the penalty for a benefit they did not gain.

Not to mention, when it comes to close combat, Windlings have enough other disadvantages, they don't need this added on.

That being said, a flying Windling with ranged attacks is a challenge, but hardly an "I win" situation. There are a number of flying creatures, and opponents can have ranged weapons and spells too. Also, there is rarely any cover to hide behind in the air.

[varrow]

Thanks for your replies; it has given me more points to consider. After considering these points and separate arguments from one of my vocal players I have concluded that my personal view is as follows. Feel free to disagree or ignore my wall of text, but as I wrote it out for my players I thought I would also share it here for other people to use or subject to ridicule as you prefer.

As a GM, in arbitrating the rules presented in the rule books, the general rules will apply unless there is a specific stated exemption exists for the scenario presented.

The general rules, as I see them, is that in the course of a characters turn they must declare their intentions and then execute their actions

Declare Intentions
All characters declare the general type of action they intend to perform during the round, along with any combat options (see p. 382) they intend to use.

Statements such as “I wish move to the enemy and attack” or “I wish to attack and then move away from the enemy” are routine and simply involve the use of a simple action (movement) for the stated movement and a standard action for the attack. Whether the standard action or the simple action occurs first makes little difference to the action, but it may make a large difference to action of other characters. The movement performed in this stated simple action could be any form of movement the character is capable of, but the movement is only taking place during the simple action and not the standard action.

E.g. A character may walk up to an enemy and attack or attack and then walk away, either way the character is not walking when they perform the attack and not attacking while they are walking. A Windling could choose to use their flight movement instead of walking in this scenario but like the walking movement, their simple action (movement) ends before the standard action (attack) or only begins after the standard action (attack).

A statement like “I wish to fly into the air and then attack while I hover in place” is very different. This indicates a more complex extension of the simple action (movement) so that it is occurring simultaneously and continuing throughout the standard action of the attack. This is no problem and can be achieved using the splitting movement combat option. Which is a specific rule allowing for move, attack, move situations.

Poor linguistic and incomplete descriptive skills on the part of a player who would describe this action as simply “I am going to fly up and attack” does not constitute a rule exemption, so unless the character will be in a position to safely end their flight movement at the end of their movement action, this declaration is inadequate for the actions they wish to perform.

Movement
Each round, a character can freely move a distance up to his Movement Rate. If you want to move farther, you must use your Standard action.
Flying Movement
The Flying Movement rate of creatures appears with their statistics in the Creatures chapter of the Gamemaster’s Guide. For simplicity, flying creatures are not limited in their ability to move, they can freely move vertically or horizontally as part of their normal movement. Flying creatures or characters can use combat options as normal. Unless stated otherwise, flying creatures do not need to use their Movement Rate to stay airborne and can hover in place.
Splitting Movement
This combat option allows characters to split their movement during a combat round. A character uses part of his movement to approach a target, make an attack, then uses the rest of his movement to move away. Use of the Splitting Movement combat option causes the character 1 Strain. A character who uses this option is Harried (see p. 388) during the round.

These rules clearly state how a character can move up to their movement and how they must use their standard action if they wish to move further than their movement rate. While not specifically stated I infer that to be considered moving, a character must be expending at one point of their movement rate. The Fly Movement rule constitutes a specific exemption to this where a flying creature is considered moving (staying airborne) without needing to expend any movement rate, this results in the intended ability of flying creature to able to hover. Without this exemption flying creatures would have to expend one movement rate each round to stay air borne making hovering impossible. The flying movement rule in no way changes movement from a simple action and provides no exemption in regards to performance of standard actions and splitting movement.

A flying creature wishing to perform a standard action while flying may use the splitting movement combat option and choose to use any of their movement rate before the standard action and then complete their movement up to the remaining amount of their movement rate. A flying creature using 0 movement rate and thus hovering is still performing a simple action (movement), and will be splitting movement if they perform a 0 movement rate hover to remain airborne before their standard action and then another 0 movement rate hover to remain airborne.

I acknowledge the concept that characters may not be completely static during their standard action and that small incidental movements and balances may be taking place, but this is a descriptive statement allowing for the abstract nature of the rules being used for combat and does not constitute a specific rule exemption overriding the stated rules for the simple action (movement) or standard actions. Also no such description or statement regarding non static, small incidental movements appears in the EarthDawn rulebooks (unless someone can provide me a reference). Such description appears in the D20 rules systems, but so do many other rules such as attacks of opportunity which are not part of the Earthdawn rule system.

I will also acknowledge that there is a combat option of swooping attack which appears to specifically relate to close combat melee attacks while fighting. The swooping attack combat option is redundant and does not provide any rule modifications or exemptions and only illustrates one possible scenario where a flying creature is using a close melee attack as their standard action rather than a ranged attack or a spell attack. It further illustrates the possible combat options an opponent may choose when encountering a flying creature such as reserving an action.

Combat Summary
During each round, your character can do a number of things: perform simple tasks (including movement), and use talents or skills that require different kinds of actions.

This is simple enough and points out the separation between movement and other actions.

Actions
During each combat round, a character can take one Standard action and any number of Simple actions. He can use Sustained actions over the course of several turns, and he can use Free actions when the ability allows it. The different types of Actions are described in more detail in the Talents chapter, p. 118.
Simple Actions
Apart from his Standard Action, a character can perform a variety of Simple actions during a combat round, which may or may not require him to make a test.
Standard Actions
A character can perform one Standard action per combat round. Many of the Simple and Free actions a character takes on his turn depend on the character taking a Standard action with another ability.
Many talents and skills require characters to use their Standard action. A character can use only a single talent or skill that requires a Standard action during a combat round. This is because the talent or skill requires a major part of the character’s focus to execute. Talents and skills that require a Standard action usually require a test to determine their success (see Using Talents, p. 119, and Using Skills, p. 184). This includes most combat and Interaction talents and skills, and any use of magic, including weaving threads and casting spells.
A character may spend his Standard action to move, allowing him to move up to double his Movement Rate.
Sustained Actions
Not all tasks can be completed in a single round. Some talents use Sustained ac¬tions, identified by the “Action: Sustained” notation in talent or skill descriptions. A Sustained action for a talent or skill usually requires the character to spend more than one round before a test is made.

The rules for actions, simple actions and standard actions mention the use of sustained actions. I can see the possibility of regarding Windling flight as a sustained action as this action can continue across many rounds and does have a toughness test associated with it, but I feel this interpretation would be changing Windling flight from a simple action (movement) to a standard action (sustained) and would never allow Windlings attack or perform any other standard action while flying, since you may only perform one standard action per round.

This is how I conclude the rules presented in the Earthdawn rule book should be applied in relation to flying creatures performing standard action during flight. I could go on further about the fact it is stated that specifically for Windlings that flight is not their primary movement and that it quickly tires them, but I see my interpretation as equally applying to any flying creature unless that creature has a specific rule exemption in their description.

In my previous post I referred to Windlings hovering in combat and performing standard actions without the need of splitting movement as an “I win” tactic. This was an oversimplified and reactionary statement for which I apologise.

I feel the application of splitting movement rules as stated above is not only correct as per the stated EarthDawn rules but also provides an effective equaliser in combat with regards to flying and non-flying creatures which will factor into the determination of challenge ratings for combat encounters. As there appears to be dissention in the correctness of this view I will propose to following options for my players:

One:
Accept the interpretation of the splitting movement with regards to flying creatures and use of standard actions while flying as stated above.

I feel that with this interpretation there will be little difference to combat encounter challenge rating and legend point award between flying and non-flying characters so long as each character in some way participates in the encounter.

Two:
Introduce a “House rule” that flying creatures can hover in combat as a free action and do not need to split their movement while performing standard actions while hovering with the exception of the close combat swooping attack combat option.

I feel this will unbalance the challenge ratings for combat encounters between flying and non-flying characters and as a result the combat encounter challenge rating will have to be determined and legend points awarded separately for flying and non-flying characters in most encounters.

Three:
Introduce a “House rule” that flying creatures can hover in combat as a free action and do not need to split their movement while performing standard actions while hovering. This rule supersedes and effectively removes the close combat swooping attack combat option.

Same as option 2, but even more so.

Four:
Introduce a “House rule” that Windlings can hover in combat as a free action and do not need to split their movement while performing standard actions while hovering with the exception of the close combat swooping attack combat option.

Same as option 2, but even more so and result in potentially lower challenge ratings even further for some encounters

Five:
Introduce a “House rule” that Windlings can hover in combat as a free action and do not need to split their movement while performing standard actions while hovering. This rule supersedes and effectively removes the close combat swooping attack combat option.

Same as option 4, but even more so.

[varrow]

[etherial]

[Mataxes]