Forge Weapon / Dispel Magic

[kosmit]

Isn't Dispel Magic too powerful for a First Circle talent?

[Mataxes]

It hasn't seemed to be in testing so far. And the original spell was C1 (though it took slightly longer to use and had a lower effect until Willforce kicked in).

Look at it this way, a "typical" starting C1 Wizard with Dispel Magic is looking at... WIL 7 + Dispel Magic 1 -- so Step 8. Even adding in Karma (for an extra 3-4 points on average) you're looking at an average result on 11 or 12 on tests. The Dispel Difficulty for a Circle 1 effect is 11. This means about a 50% chance of success, give or take.

Yes, the average result goes up as the character advances, but so does the DN of the test to successfully Dispel.

This all assumes, of course that (A) you are within range of the effect to try and dispel it, and (B) aware of the effect in the first place.

I don't know about you, but I'd be hesitant to get into potential melee range (which would be the case up to Rank 6 or so) to try and dispel a (potential) forge blade effect, especially when there's not much way of knowing how difficult it might be to get rid of it. I mean, is that really the best use of your standard action that round?

[Baravakar]

Its only available to two disciplines at first circle (Wizard and Necromancer).

It costs 1 strain and a standard action to use. Plus, the user has to be aware that a Dispel-able ability is in play. I don't feel its too powerful for first circle. Everything has limitations.

Take my example of Astral Sight on the weapon. It reveals the weapon has a magic aura. That aura could be that the weapon is a Thread Item. That can not be dispelled by anyone.

[Gkeckley]

This seems exceptionally harsh. I am not arguing against it. However, it is one of those things that benefits the NPCs more. There are countless NPCs if they cast it on a pc it is a loss of resources and takes a while to recover from. If the pcs use it then defeat the npc they just cost themselves loot. I would be careful about this use of Dispell Magic.

[Tattered Rags]

[Baravakar]

[etherial]

[kosmit]

I picture in mind a scene when warrior stands against a Wizard and he says "This fancy sword of yours? It is merely a trinket! <dispel magic>. I would like to do this at least once to mess with my players who were always so confident

Btw. As a nethermancer I always astral sight enemies before fight Then I use my swordmaster's talents

[Baravakar]

[Mataxes]

I don't think it's quite as simple as logical deduction, and certainly not automatic. (Half-magic knowledge generally requires a test -- that is, they don't need to spend skill ranks to ask questions or know about things related to their Discipline's focus, but the knowledge isn't automatic. I would also probably require the Wizard to spend at least a round examining the desired target, especially if the effect isn't 'obvious'. And no, showing 'magical' in the astral is not obvious.)

But even if the Wizard is making this leap, he needs to be close enough to use Dispel Magic, because it's a close range power (Rank x 2 yards). I've also discussed the numbers involved and pointed out the odds of the Wizard pulling it off aren't really in their favor -- unless they're intentionally built to take advantage of this tactic and are burning Karma, and even then it's more likely to work against low-powered forgings (remember the DN for Dispel would be based on the Forge rank of the Weaponsmith that did the work), which would result in a comparatively lesser advantage for the effort involved.

Would it work? Yes.

Is it a valid, reliable tactic? The numbers and risk involved don't really support that (limited range, opportunity cost -- i.e. "Is there something better I could have done with my action this round?").

The calculus changes a little once you start getting into higher Circles and can target somebody outside of 'effective' melee range, but even that isn't huge. (After all, if you need to be within 10-12 yards in order to target somebody, they can potentially close and attack you, you are certainly within missile range, and in range of many damaging spells, etc.)

It can bring an interesting angle into higher-Circle tactics, but I don't see it happening commonly. I certainly think a GM who regularly has NPCs do this to PCs is being a jerk. (In much the same way that regularly targeting family and friends, having Thieves steal pattern items, or other similar screwing around with PC resources and attributes is being a jerk. These sorts of things are spices and should be used sparingly.)