Climbing, Failing, and Falling

[Tattered Rags]

[Mataxes]

Hoo boy. How did that question not come up during review and playtesting?

(It didn't even occur to me.)

First off, yes, it is supposed to be a case of missing the DN by 10. You are right on that. (Bah. Typo Horrors.)

Here are a couple of thoughts:

For "simple" failure (missed DN, but not by enough to fall), I see two options:
1) No progress is made, some time is wasted, can try again.
2) Still makes the climb, but it takes some multiplier of additional time. Say, x1.5 or maybe even x2 compared to the time from a "simple" success.

I kind of prefer the second, in part because it eliminates 'redundant rolling' and rolls affecting "scene length" actions that don't do anything.

For "falling" failures... the falling distance can be some % of the total distance based on the severity of the failure. 25% at -10 to -14, 50% at -15 to -19, 75% at -20 to -24... you get the idea. This would mean the penalty for falling is related to the distance, but on a scale relative to the climb and its difficulty.

(Aside: Looking at those values, I'm wondering if the -10 falling threshold is too large -- it really depends on what the typical DN range would be. Maybe falling on a fail of -5 (with the same kind of increment idea). Introducing a kind of "negative success" to mirror the other direction.)

My brain is a little fuzzy at the moment, so this is really off the cuff. I started training in a new job this week and have been getting up at 5:30 AM, much earlier than I am used to, and it's taking a little bit to get my sleep schedule in order.

[Tattered Rags]

Thanks for the reply, though, and good luck with the new job!

I like option 2 for failures that don't result in a fall. Less rolling; simple mechanic.

As for the falling threshold, note that the -10 is if you have climbing gear. Normal falling is at a -5.


(And now that I look at it, you effectively cannot fall from a tree without a rule of 1 triggering, if the climb is less than 20 yards. And if you go with the option of that only happening with multiple dice, then bad climbers cannot fall from trees. Interesting edge case, and not really one worth worrying over.)

[Razan_GM]

Lets look at some examples of climbing with climbing gear (+4 bonus and fall if missed the DN by 10).

Cliff 15 yards DN = 9 fall only on Rule of 1
Cliff 25 yards DN = 10 fall only on Rule of 1
Cliff 115 yards DN = 12 fall on test result of 2 or less

Wall 12 yards DN = 12 fall on test result of 2 or less
Wall 22 yards DN = 13 fall on test result of 3 or less

Now that it was mentioned by Mataxes: "I'm wondering if the -10 falling threshold is too large", I think I'll test some climbing with gear but with fall treshold of 5.

I think it was in ED1 that you fall from half the height, its fast and easy and all my players say: "Gravity is biggest killer in Barsaive". Obsidiman warrior of my player got 209 damage from fall, and he was really tough (Death rate 160+)

[Tattered Rags]

[Belenus]

Why don't make it easy? Just roll a D10 (1=10% height, 2=20%, ..)?
And if you roll a critical (1) with your climbing test, you fall the whole height

[Tattered Rags]

[Slimcreeper]

I would say the result of the damage roll indicates how far you fell. Roll all 1's? then you just started climbing.

[cz1234]

Thinking about this a bit more and it seems that climbing gear isn't well fleshed out. If I'm not mistaken you get both a bonus to your climbing roll and a bonus to the chance of falling. It double dips. In addition if you follow the one dice rule of one (can't rule of one if you only roll a single die) climbing gear might increase your chance of falling.

If I think about myself trying to climb something all the gear in the world isn't going to help me find hand holds but it will make my failures much less likely to result in falling.

I think I would go with:

No gear: You fail the roll you fall.
Gear but climbing solo: Fail by -5 you fall.
Gear climbing in a group (assuming you are working together to climb): Fail by -10 you fall.

It seems harsh on the no gear side but really if you have no skill climbing than trying anything beyond the most basic climb is inviting the very real possibility you fall. If you are going solo then getting the gear correct is going to be risky but assuming you do it well you lessen the odds you fall. In a group you can do all the things climbers do to minimize risk in modern climbing.

To make it crunchier I'd probably go with the percentage based on how bad you failed idea. Fail by 1 - 10%, by 2 - 20%, etc. I'd also maybe ignore rule of one for this, some set ups just can't fail here, not sure about that.

The big thing is removing the climbing bonus. If you are so bad at climbing that in a group you still can't make it then really your group has to haul you up.

[Mataxes]