Converting 3rd Ed Disciplines to 4th Ed

[Spader]

Yeah. The fact is I'm running a game in ED3 which I intend to migrate into ED4. Problem is one of my players is a Horror Stalker and another is a Shaman. And instead of waiting until those disciplines become official in fourth edition, I decided to convert them myself. That is when I browsed the whole Shaman spell list and checked what was left in ED4.

[Valentius]

I'm glad to hear that work is being done on both the Monk and the Sword Dancer. I always got the impression that the Sword Dancer was supposed to represent those wandering weapon master martial artist characters so common in Chinese fantasy movies and it will be good to see them made more distinct from the Swordmaster and Warrior.

Regarding the Merchant I agree almost entirely with that you said and the thought of them becoming a Fantasy “Fixer” is pretty awesome. I will note that while being a travelling merchant may not interest you (and doesn’t really float my boat either) there are players out there that will salivate at the idea of being able to play a character who is building their own mercantile empire. Perhaps, much like other 4th edition Disciplines, a happy medium can be achieved with this Discipline which will let a player take the Adept in either direction depending on Talent choices?

When it comes to the Beastlord, I like the concept but it really encroaches on the Beastmaster's territory too much, particularly with the 4th Edition's changes to the Beastmaster's Discipline list. Keeping the general theme of pulling experience from past lives why not take a bit more broad approach to it and open it to past Namegiver lives as well? I see Adepts of this Discipline accessing their past lives to temporarily be able to mimic skills and talents they don't normally have. This would divorce it more clearly from the Beastmaster and give it its own space. Of course this would mean reworking the Talents the Discipline uses and it would definitely need a new name.

I'm just going to say it; I like the Pugilist. Or rather, I like their concept. They are Cathay’s version WWE/UFC champions and I can easily see a place for them as Gladiators or Pit Fighters. While I’ve never played one, their bonus manipulating combat talents feel awkward and rather fiddly, but I think with reworking they’d make great “performance fighters”.

The Daughters of Heaven, while cool, are crippled by restrictions and fluff and their counterparts the Scholars are pointless considering the existence of the Traveled Scholar (and they start with a Magic Item!?). They are also crippled the same way the Daughters are. What if instead, the scholar became some sort of Warrior-Scholar? Have the Daughters and the Scholars still be part of the same order. The Daughters remain the healers and relievers of suffering whereas the Scholars are their educated bodyguards, and protectors of the order? Perhaps you could have a build that casts them more as detectives? Either way I'm not sure I like them starting out owning a Threaded Item in the Moon Staff. Maybe a little less dependency on the staff or make it so they can use any staff they happen to have as a channel for their moon talents? I'm not really sure but as it stands I think the Scholar is pretty sucky.

The other Disciplines are a mixed bag really and none of them seem worthwhile. The Guardians of Cathay and the Samurai are overly specific and can be better served by Disciplines already in existence. War Riders seem to be a-hole Cavalrymen who don't really care about their mounts and who exist solely to give the Gar (A race I find entirely irritating) a Discipline to call their own. I agree with you about the Sorcerers too. They need a lot of work to define what exactly they are and they definitely need their own spell list.

Anyhoo, those are some of my thoughts on the Cathay Disciplines. I eagerly look forward to seeing what you do with them!

[kosmit]

I got renegade Daughter of Heaven in my Barsaive campaign and it works pretty well

[Valentius]

How does your DoH receive training? Talents could probably be learned from anyone who has that talent but wouldn't she have to head all the way back to the Tower of Secret to rank up to the next circle of the Discipline? That is, unless you've made some specific provision for her to get training in Barsaive...

[etherial]

[Valentius]

I'm not really familiar with Ghost Master Rituals. To be honest I am a fairly new and extremely casual player. How do the GMRs work?

[etherial]

[Mataxes]

The Ritual of the Ghost Master is what you turn to when/if you are not able to find a teacher of sufficient Circle to train you in your next Circle advancement.

Basically, you summon the ghost of a past master of your Discipline, swear a blood oath, and they become your mentor.

[kosmit]

From circles 1-5 she just regained her lost memories when she meditated talents. She lost memory in the storm while traveling from Cathay to Barsaive. She luckily found her bracelet which started the process of regaining her memory. From now on it will be GMR

[Valentius]

So I've still been thinking about the Beastlord. Doing some cursory research on my original idea of someone who who taps knowledge and experience of their past lives, I've come to realize that I just don't have the system knowledge to make it work, though I still think it's a cool idea.

To that end I went back and took another look at the Discipline again. Basically they are a social/face Discipline with some cool animal themed talents which is...odd, but I can sort of buy their explanation. So I considered switching things up a bit What if instead of exploring their past lives as animals, they instead were Totemists who dealt with animal spirits. Keeping with the theme, they "bond" with 1 animal totem (of their choice) per circle. Thematically this would put them somewhere between the Beastmaster and the Nethermancer.

By giving him a link to animal spirits (which doesn't appear to be a category of spirits, oddly enough) that gives him good reason to have those social skills. He needs then to be able to bargain/deal with animal spirits he summons or encounters. The animal themed talents would ether be magic he's learned to manipulate animals with or talents he's learned to emulate animal abilities.

Anyway, that is the rough, big picture idea I had. What do you guys think?