Forge Weapon / Dispel Magic

[Telarus_KSC]

[Telarus_KSC]

So, that aside. In my Greyhawk/Earthdawn mashup games, I'm using Forged weapons in place of any +1/+2 Sword(etc) found. But some of these are treasure that has been sitting there forever. So, I invented a Weaponsmith Ritual (probably a Knack on Forge Blade) that requires a bit of Orichalcum to "seal" the enchantment onto the weapon. The Forge enchantment still lasts the normal amount of time, but any item with the Orichalcum Forge Seal on it can have it's enchantment bonus refreshed for 1 Month by a small sacrifice of blood magic (# of strain equal to the Forge bonus). It also allows a Weaponsmith to re-forge up to the Seal's Forge Bonus at half the time/silver cost, basically re-setting it for another year-and-a-day.

This was a way to let players use the cool ancient found loot without burning a bunch of money. For the purposes of this thread, I would say that the Forging would still be Dispelled, but the Seal would remain allowing a quick boost back to the Forged bonus and cheaper repairs afterward.

[Baravakar]

[etherial]

[Baravakar]

[Tattered Rags]

I like where all of this is going.

[Baravakar]

[Baravakar]

[Shuntyr]

Baravakar asked
Do talents have visual Astral Imprints?
Since talents produce magic effects, do they show as imprints the same as spells?

I would say yes to both, with the caveat that some may be minute while others are impossibly to miss.
I think this answer is backed by the players guide, page ~210 under the section "Patterns in Astral Space."

An example for the section referenced above:
"A Chilling Circle spell might appear as an icy cloud of
Astral energy radiating out from the magician who cast the spell. A Mind Dagger spell
might appear as a dagger-shaped bolt of astral energy that flies from the caster to his
target."

As for dispel magic:
The description for the dispel magic talent requires a target to cast against. I believe the talent implies that you must know what you are trying to dispel. No blanket casting "I'll cast dispel into that group over there and see what happens"

Given that I believe that spells and talents do show an effect astrally (large or small)
Do you need to view the spell or talent astrally?
Can you base your dispel off of visual clues?

EXAMPLE:
If my group is in combat and an enemy elementalist casts 'air armour' on his friends, which has a visible effect of puffing out armour (and lets presume that a GM required a perception test to notice this) Can I dispell that based upon what I visually see or must I astrally sense the spell that is woven around the enemy characters?

Some additional questions:
What does a spell effect look like astrally?
Does every 'air armour' spell look the same?
Does every 'talent' look the same astrally?

I would propose that a wizard must identify the spell or talent via visual, astral or deductive 'sense' to dispel it. You don't have to understand what it is exactly, but it must be identified.
A half-magic test or another suitable sensing test may be in order. Patterncraft may also help the wizard here.
Some spells or effects may be beyond the wizard.

I would say that both spells and talents "may" take a different form when viewed astrally for each person.
I would say that "yes" some talents and/or spells appear to the same no matter who/what casts them. My 'earth darts" look just like everyone else's "earth darts" BUT maybe my "iron hands" spell shows as a small "light pulse" on someone’s hands when viewed astrally, but my neighbor's "iron hands" spell appears to enlarge the hands slightly.

There is some powerful potential role-play here. A wizard's half-magic allows him to 'recognize different types of
magic use.' If a wizard viewed another player with several talents that were active that does not mean that the wizard could tell that what exactly those talents were. A wizard might be able to deduce "thief magic" or wizard magic"

For example: Mr. Wizard is drinking coffee at a busy coffee stand and using astral sight on those who pass by.
(Why - well because he can!)

The wizard scans a random person who turns out to be a 'weapon smith' This weaponsmith is in the process of 'Forging a Weapon' and he is also using 'Item History' to try and identify an object. The weapon smith also has a thread woven to the rather large axe strapped on his back. Given my statements above and the last 3 pages of this post, let’s agree that these talents can be seen via astral sight in some way

What does the wizard see?

Now, as a GM I would not tell the wizard "you see a weaponsmith with these active talents..."

I could tell the wizard that there appears to be a line (a thread even) from the "person" to the large axe. This is easy to deduce.

For the forge weapon talent, perhaps I would indicate there appears to be some roughness around the hands and leave it at that. (Each weaponsmith could be different here) If the wizard viewed the same weaponsmith the next day, I might indicate that the 'roughness' seems to have increased or perhaps taken on a slight golden hue. (This is the weaponsmith imbuing the weapons with some of his magic...)

For the item history talent, I might say there is a "fading uncertain haze" about him. What? No free rides for wizards! If the wizard viewed the same weaponsmith the next day I might indicate the haze is no longer uncertain or is no longer fading.

SO ...given my view stated above and to prevent wizard abuse (well - abuse by the wizard rather)

COMBAT:
If in combat I would allow the player wizard to 'see' active talents or spells on enemy characters.

Pre-round 1 Mr. Wizard has astral sight/sense active.
Round 1: Mr. Wizard sees three enemy characters. Astraly sense/sight roll is very high, each has between 2 and 5 active talents or spells. NO list of what abilities or spells. A half magic test may reveal "fighter magic"

Round 2: Mr. Wizard will focused on enemy "one" and use patterncraft/half magic to view that character more closely.
End of round 2: GM tells Mr. wizard enemy "one" has 2 active talents; I might describe what I think the talent looks astrally.

Round 3: Mr. Wizard will cast dispel on enemy "one" and target one talent described in round 2. (Success!, one less talent to deal with)

Round 4: Mr. Wizard is happy he dispelled one of the talents on enemy "one", but is sad because he realizes that he now has three swords sticking through his body.

Round 5: Mr. Wizard is very sad.

Was this an effictive use of Mr.Wizards time? Even if the Wizard was in a group, would a player spend the time to view what talents are active vs casting 'earth darts' or another spell? If this was a boss-encounter we might see the wizard take the time to do this.

This is how I how I would approach dispel magic and astral sense/sight.

-Shuntyr

#Fighters should not stick swords in Wizards