taunt effects and duration

[galafrone]

a couple of questions about Taunt.

when the taunts get counted for the duration ?
for a number of ACTIVE rounds of the target ? (i usually do this)
example:
- round 1, A is first, does its actions. Then B taunts A for an average (-1) penalty to A actions, for a 3 round period (B taunt rank is 3)

does the taunt starts to effect A in the same round, even if he has already acted, so basically wasting 1 round of taunt (A is taunted in the rounds 1, 2 and 3), or starts from the first time A can act, that is in the Round 2 (so A is affected in the round 2, 3 and 4) ?

second: how is the duration affected by repetitive taunts at different values ?

- round 1, A taunts B for an average effect. (-1 is enforced on all actions of B until the expiration of the taunt) A ranks is 3, so B is taunted in rounds 1, 2 and 3.
in round 3, A taunts again, for a good effect. (-2 is enforced on all actions of B until the expiration of taunt) So, the taunt is renewed for 3 rounds at - 2 (rounds 3, 4 and 5)
in round 5 A taunts again for an average effect (lower than the previous Good).
what happens ?
the better results stays up, for another 3 rounds ?
the - 2 is up just for the round 5, then the -1 of the lower result goes off ?
the -2 is replaced by the -1 starting from the same round (5) and stays up for 3 rounds ? (5, 6 and 7) ?

this is particularly pesky for swordmaster duels.
thanks for the clarifications

[arma]

If it doesn't say otherwise*, the first round counts in full. That is, the round you use something like Taunt, you already count in. It isn't wasted really, since you can use Taunt before an attack, and the Taunt would penalizes any Avoid Blow or similar Test that tries to dodge that attack.

For multiple effects, the rule technically is that only the "greater of the two effects" counts. What the greater effect is depends on interpretation, since the main thing for you can be penalty size, Duration, etc. etc..
Now, in case of the second Taunt, this isn't a problem, because you can immediately replace the first Taunt with it, the second Taunt is clearly the greater effect.
For the third Taunt, you have a lower penalty, but greater Duration now. So you'd let the second Taunt run its course, and when it's out, the third Taunt would kick in. But you'd count the duration off of that as well. Meaning that for the third Taunt, you'd have a lower Duration.
(see Using Talents, p. 57, second paragraph)

* some abilities say "until the target's next turn" or something.

[galafrone]

all clear except the round 3 situation of the second example.
so will be the -2 (good result of round 3 taunting) going for round 3, 4 but in round 5, since the taunt is again -1 it becomes -1 for the rounds 5, 6 and 7 ?
the phrase i dont understand is the
"But you'd count the duration off of that as well. Meaning that for the third Taunt, you'd have a lower Duration."
what happens here ? sorry for not understanding
(and thanks as usual)

[arma]

It means both effects are active, but you only apply the effects of one. But you still keep track of time. You have an Overlap in Durations.
So, at the end of a round on which you have two Taunts on one target, you check off both their Durations, despite only applying one of the penalties.

Your Round 1:
Before Taunt: nothing
After Taunt: target suffers -1 for 3 rounds
End of round*: reduce Duration to 2 rounds
*or "between rounds" if you will

Round 2:
All Round: target suffers -1 for 2 rounds
End of Round: reduce Duration to 1 round

Your Round 3:
Before Taunt: target suffers -1 for 1 round
After Taunt: target suffers -2 for 3 rounds and -1 for 1 round, but you only apply the -2
End of round: reduce Duration of the -2 to 2 rounds and end the -1 effect

Your Round 4:
All Round: target suffers -2 for 2 rounds
End of round: reduce Duration to 1 round

Your Round 5:
Before Taunt: target suffers -2 for 1 round
After Taunt: target suffers -2 for 1 round and -1 for 3 rounds, but you apply only the -2
End of round: end the -2 effect, reduce Duration of -1 effect to 2 rounds

Your Round 6:
All round: target suffers -1 for 2 rounds
etc.


So it's your second option: "-2 runs its course, then the -1 comes in".
But it is important to note that the -1 doesn't wait its turn to start. It immediately starts, is there simultaneously, but doesn't do anything as long as the -2 is there. Because it started, you count the round towards its Duration, though.
This Duration thing applies to all similar cases. There are a couple of situations where this might be important, for example:
- One Taunt is somehow dispelled. But now the one you didn't count is still active.
- The two Taunts originate from 2 different persons. One falls unconscious, which ends his Taunt, so the other one still applies
- The two Taunts from two persons have different Durations, e.g. a Rank 15 taunt achieves an Average Result, and then a Rank 1 Taunt achieves an Excellent Result. You'll start with a -1, then get a -4 for just 1 round, and then the -1 kicks in again

Taunt is a bit complicated there because it has a variable effect, but the basics of this apply to all abilities:
1. if effects vary, apply the greater effect, but count all Durations
2. if the effect is always the same (usually for spells), reset the Duration, no need to keep track of both as both do the same

[galafrone]

perfect.
i am sorry to pester you, but the taunt and minimum damage situation are been raised by a "swordmasters tournament", where the taunt is basically the most important weapon at disposal of the contenders.
so who goes first and hit harder is usually the swordmaster that probably win the game.
not always so, expecially if the one that start first is he higher in circle, but between same-circle contenders is really what does the difference
(also, the resist taunt talent/skill becomes the most important "defensive" ability).

thanks anyway