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I have a few questions regarding 3rd edition Journeyman from the Namegivers of Barsaive. On page 155, Durability first states that it's 6/5 under the Talents heading. Later under Defense and Characteristics Bonuses, it reads 7/6. Which is correct? Also, am I right in seeing that they don't get to have Durability until Circle 12 when they get their first Characteristic Bonus? If Durability is considered a characteristic bonus in this fashion, upon reading 12th circle it looks like they can choose durability as well as two other talents. So...do they essentially have access to 3 at that circle? or is Durability for them a one shot deal where you can't add ranks to it like other disciplines?

Journeymen get 6/5 Durability at Second Circle. Then, at 12th Circle, they can choose to upgrade their Durability Talent to 7/6 in lieu of another Characteristic Bonus. This upgrade is retroactive.

thanks much. now back to plotting the groups demise in the canopy of Ustrect.

Out of interest how are you determining that Journeymen don't get access to Durability until 2nd Circle?

I could not find any convincing reason in the text to suggest that they can't learn any Talent they want at 1st Circle.

Hiya,

With the exception of the Cathayan Monk, all ED3 Disciplines get Durability in their Novice talent pool, only available from Second Circle onwards. However, when the Journeyman wants to pick up the Durability talent, he or she learns it from another adept at the Circle which that adept learned it, which for most adepts will be Second Circle, but could be higher...

This means that a Journeyman who approaches another adept who happened to learn Durability at a later Circle, say Fourth Circle, can't learn Durability from that adept until he is himself Fourth Circle.

For the most part, however, finding an adept who knows Durability at Second Circle won't be an exercise in futility.

Note that in EDR, Durability is a Discipline Talent for all adepts at Second Circle.

Bottom line is (and ignoring the Cathayan Monk again for this response) that the earliest Circle that a Journeyman can pick up Durability is Second Circle, like every other adept.

Hope this helps!

Take kaer, James

Hiya,

I don't disagree that the Journeyman needs a little more, um, clarification. It's always been somewhat of a problem child.

"These talents are learned from a trainer in the same way as other adepts learn Talent options" is indeed, I think, the ambiguous statement.

What was trying to be said, is that the Journeyman doesn't just pluck talents out of the air, they still need to be taught them, even though they (potentially) have access to any and all talents. That means finding an adept or adepts who knows the desired talents.

Shortening it to "These talents are learned from a trainer in the same way as other adepts learn a talent via Versatility." is probably not a bad thing. An example would probably help also.

Good discussion, thanks.

Take kaer, James