Co-Operative Actions

[Banjo666]

Obviously I was mistaken, Earthdawn is so "special" it does not need rules for co-operative rolls that every other rule set I own covers in one or two paragraphs

[Telarus_KSC]

Well, what do you mean by co-operative rules? Or, can you quote another game's coverage of this rule-space briefly?

[Banjo666]

OK, example 1 from Eclipse Phase - 1 paragraph.
TEAMWORK
If two or more characters join forces to tackle a test
together, one of the characters must be chosen as the
primary actor. This leading character will usually (but
not always) be the one with the highest applicable skill.
The primary acting character is the one who rolls the
test, though they receive a +10 modifier for each additional
character helping them out, up to a maximum
+30 modifier. Note that helping characters do not necessarily
need to know the skill being used if the gamemaster
decides that they can follow the primary actor’s lead.

Example 2 from Savage Worlds:
Cooperative Rolls
Sometimes characters may want to cooperate and help
a friend complete some kind of urgent task. If two or more
characters want to perform a task together (and the GM
decides it’s possible for them to do so), the lead character
makes his roll and adds +1 for every success and raise his
companions achieved on their own rolls. This has a normal
maximum of +4 for all tasks except those of Strength, which
have no maximum.
Characters may not make cooperative rolls if they don’t
actually have the skill in question. (You can’t make default
rolls to aid with Boating, for example, if your character doesn’t
actually have the Boating skill.)

Example 3 - Rogue Trader
Assistance
In some situations, multiple characters working together have
a better chance of completing the task than if a character
attempts it alone. With the GM’s permission, a character can
assist another character that is performing a test. Only the
character that is actually performing the test rolls dice. Each
character assisting reduces the difficulty by one step. If the
test succeeds, the character performing the test gains an extra
degree of success.
Limits on Assistance
Characters can assist each other in most tasks but there are limits:
• To give assistance on a Skill Test, a character must have
training in the skill
• The assisting character must be adjacent to the character
performing the test
• Assistance cannot be given for Reactions or Free Actions
• Assistance cannot be given on tests made to resist disease,
poison, Fear, or anything else the GM deems inappropriate
• No more than two characters may attempt to assist another
on a single test.

As you can see they are pretty much the same as the suggestions that have been given for Earthdawn, but the very important difference IMHO is that they are written in the rules, they are not made up on the whim of the GM. None of the examples above can be called complex, and running all the games above I can tell you that all the games use these rules every game session.

[ragbasti]

Personally I'd do it the way arma suggested - lowering difficulty numbers. This, imho, also reflects the principle of cooperation alot better than some of the mechanics above^^
Having someone hel you doesn't make you any better at anything, it just makes things easier

[arma]

If you look at your provided system examples, they pretty much focus on the one thing ED doesn't want you to gain cooperative bonuses, mostly in combat and close-in situations.
One of your examples for cooperation was building a boat.
So in EP it's the same if you get 3 or 100 people to help. In SW it's mostly 4 or 100. In RT it's 6 and they have to be adjacent to you...
Note all these are also "finite" systems in one way or the other, especially the D% ones. Characteristics have a set range, and they don't allow the GM to set the basic DN, at best to modify it, and helping simply sets that off. They work completely different than ED. Note both of them also explicitly refer to GM decisions. These systems don't actually do what you want them to do, and they don't really focus on working towards the actual task...

It would be no difficulty to somewhere say "get a +2 bonus from help" but that would reach its limits pretty quickly.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I've got a rough rule in place at my table. Every person who wants to help makes a roll against the DN. On a Poor result and up (Average if it can be defaulted), the assistants add +1 to the main. I use some common sense about how many can help for a given task.

[Banjo666]

I was asked for examples, and I gave them, I can give you another dozen in other rules sets (really any other rule set except Earthdawn).
None of them are concerned with "combat or close-in situations", combat, as in Earthdawn, is covered by another whole set of seperate modifiers.
In all those games the GM can set the TN or modifiers to the difficulty of the task, and although is mentions the GM makes the decision when they apply it is really a matter they apply unless the GM says they don't.

As I keep saying, they are written in the rules, so everyone the players and GM, known how they work and can plan accordingly. It is not some sacred knowledge that only your GM is allowed to make pronoucements from up high about, if he feels like it, the wind is blowing form the north and a light misty rain is falling.

[Mataxes]

Banjo, at this point I'm not really sure what you're getting at. It seems like you feel that because Earthdawn doesn't have rules for cooperative actions it is somehow incomplete, and that pointing out that there are plenty of easy ways for the GM to rule on cooperative actions isn't good enough -- since there isn't anything quantified in the rules, the GM can just make up any old thing.

Is this accurate?

[Banjo666]

[arma]

So, what you want is
"Characters helping each other get a +X except where the GM thinks otherwise." ?
Good luck with that (especially with the examples you keep citing).
It nets you more problems than it solves because people may understand it to actually cover all situations. Which is a futile attempt, really. And their promise of power to the player is hollow.
The GM Guide gives three open options (bonus/penalty, adjust DN, adjust Result Level) to vary any difficulty based on circumstance. This works on every level possible, except it does not tell you to build a ship with a single die roll that you auto-succeed on if you've just got enough help.

^^