horror marks

[earcaraxe]

This may be a question, that reveals that i have never fully grasped the magic system in this game. So: what prevents a horror, that is capable of hooror marking, to mark a lot of victims, then kill them from a safe distance later with spells?

When im the GM, i try to not kill my players when i confront them with an horror, but i frequently find that a very clever and careful horror is extremely dangerous (too much i would say). I find myself playing a little dumb, to give my players enough chance. So perhaps i have a misunderstanding. To be more clear:

Lets suppose, im a stereotypical gharmhek. A clever (as all ghamrheks) and abitious and careful and very patient one. What i would do, is: horror mark someone, then - since i can use my abilities thru him if he is closer than 10 miles (great distance!) - horror mark every single living person he meets.

1) Is there a cap on the number of marks i can have as a gharmhek?

2) What kind of significant dangers poses this strategy to me? Can the marks be traced back to me? (im asking significant danger here, not buulgathor)

3) I can sense (see, smell, hear) everything my marked victims sense, right? (otherwise im not sure what it means "use any ability thru him")

So im just seeding horror marking like mad, and doing nothing flashy for years. Whenever some danger presents itself, for instance an adventuring group comes to my (several miles large) territory, to investigate why corpses sometimes walk here, i horror mark them too, thru one of my countless peasant-victims, and kill them from safety, from my cave, miles away.

4) can i cast some damaging nethermancy spell to kill them off, without seeing them, just thru the mark? like astral spear? and have them as batteries for my damage shift ability (if they remain nearby)?

[etherial]

[Jaracove]

Very good question earcaraxe, I'd never thought about it this way

I'm also interested in finding out how this works; perhaps someone can chime in

[Kasbak]

These are just my interpretations of the situation, so take them for what you will:

Horror Marking every living person in a 10 mile radius would attract a lot of attention, and is going to bring those pesky adventurers knocking on your door a lot sooner than you'd like. If you're not in an astrally shielded area like a kaer, then the Horror's activities are laid out in the open. It's about subtlety and guile.

I'm fairly sure that using the Horror Mark power through a Marked victim would require physical contact. As far as I'm aware unless otherwise noted, the Mark allows the Horror to affect the target as if they were touching them (so yes, casting spells on them from a distance is possible), so the new victim would need to be at touch range to be targeted. Granted, this doesn't entirely prevent Marks from being spread this way, but it does slow the pace down.

As far as I am aware, sensing through a Marked victim requires active concentration on the part of the Horror. They could still have massive awareness of the area around by shifting between their Marked victims, but it wouldn't be total awareness all the time.

So for your example with the adventurers coming to town, the Horror would need one of its Marked victims to see the adventurers when they come into town, would need to be checking said victim's awareness at the time, and would need to get the victim to make physical contact in order to Mark the adventurers, and would have to beat their Spell Defense with the Marking attempt. By no means impossible, but not the totally inescapable scenario being painted.

[Flowswithdrek]

I don't know there is an actual limit to the number of Horror marks, but there would certainly be some limiting factors.

First the Horror needs to see you to mark you.

Second it needs to overcome your spell defence (not difficult for a powerful Horror, but still).

Third A Horror mark only last for a year and a day

Forth A Horror mark can be detected (though this could be difficult)

But back to the first point (with some semantics). While Horror powers (its the Horror's ability's that can be used not the victim's) can be used against or *through the victim, the Horror Mark power still requires the Horror to see the victim. I don't know it says anywhere that Horror mark allows the Horror to see through the eyes of its victims. The *through the target part of the description seems to have been an additional word added to the description in 3rd ed (its only against the target in 1st ed) but the powers have not been updated to take account of it.

Example: Thought Worm still explicitly states the Horror must be able to see the target, if the target has been previously marked by the Horror this only grants it a bonus to the Thought Worm test. Again even the Thought Worm only establishes a telepathic link (nothing about seeing)...

So I would actually argue that a Horror Marked Namegiver cannot actually mark another, the Horror must do it. YMMV and all that.

[Telarus_KSC]

I would really reference the 1st edition Horrors book if possible. It explains that Horrors don't come in "standard types", and that even the powers get altered for special Horrors. There's some good stuff in there:

"[Altering Horror Powers - p93]
The descriptions of Horror powers in the Earthdawn rulebook, as well as those appearing for the first time in this book, represent the most commonly encountered manifestations of those Horror powers. However, not all Horror powers functions identically for all Horrors. Many Horrors have slight variations on "standard" powers. These variations add an element of unknown to the game.
[... snip ...]
The most common methods of altering a Horror power from the norm changes the parameters of a power;s effect, such as its range or duration. For example, many standard Horror powers can only be used on victims that the Horror can see. One variation might allow the Horror to use any or all of its powers on any victim it has Horror Marked, operating on the theory that they Horror mark allows it to "see" the character in question.
[ ... snip next example ...]
The other method of alteration involves changing the power's actual effect. [... snip ...] The Horror Mark power used by the entity known as Taint provides a good example of an altered effect. Instead of marking the victims as most other Horrors do, Taint must mark the victim a little bit at a time until the Horror has
tainted the victim's pattern sufficiently to create the Horror Mark. Once a victim has been marked, Taint can use it's Corrupt Magic power on that character. The Alterations to Taint's Horror Mark power limit the power in one way, but also allow the Horror to use other abilities against the victim.
[... snip ...]
[Using the Horror Mark Power - p97]
This terrible ability allows Horrors to mark victims, thereby linking the Horror and the target character. To use Horror Mark, the Horror must be able to see the target character. The Horror makes a Horror Mark Test against then target character's Spell Defense. If the target character has used raw magic [... snip ...]
The Horror Mark links the Horror to the target over vast distances and allows the Horror to use any of its abilities against the target character when the character is within 10 miles of the Horror. For a range up to 100 miles, the Horror Mark allows the Horror to take actions against the character that do not directly cause damage, and communication between the Horror and the target extends for 5,000 miles. Horror Marks last a year and a days, and the Horror may renew the Horror Mark whenever the target character is within 100 miles of the Horror.
[Unique Horror Marks - p97]
The standard description of the Horror Mark power outlines the power's basic effects and the most common method in which Horrors use it. However, many major Horrors have their own versions of this power that exemplify each Horror's strengths, weaknesses, and favorite tactics."

That most of the relevant stuff there. Though you may want to look at the Curse rules, as they can be used to spread Horror Marks.

[earcaraxe]

thanks!

Telarus, i appreciate ur helpfulness, but I would like to skip this whole "every horror is different" topic. To get a grasp, i need to understand the most (or one) tipical working. I'm not interested in variations this time, im only interested in the workings of the "horror mark" power, as it is written in the rulebook. So, I would like to ask to avoid exceptions here, like Taint. If its easier for you, then lets suppose, i would like to create a horror, that is exactly like a gharmhek in the rulebook. Lets call him Steve.

1) does the horror mark allow Steve (or does it allow in the case of a "common horror"), to sense what its victim senses (see thru his eyes)? (again, please dont mention exeptions, or the "every horror(mark) is unique" thing)

2) if not, then what does "through" mean in: "..allows the Horror to use any of its abilities against or through
the target when it is within 10 miles of the Horror." (p. 273, GM's Guide).?

3) can Steve use its horror mark ablility thru physical contact with one of his victims? Is "touching" a different sense in this case then "seeing"?

[earcaraxe]

my brother has an idea regarding 2)

it perhaps means, that if A is marked, and B is closer to A than 48 yards, and the horror sees B, then the horror can cast an astral spear on B. Even if the horror is far away from B.

I think he has nailed it, right?

[earcaraxe]

one more:

4) does/can the horror (Steve again) know what its mark-victim speaks? Even if the answer to 1) is no?

[Flowswithdrek]