Second Discipline & Double Talents.

[Tubben]

Hello.

Currently my char is a circle 9 Thief.

At circle 10 i plan to choose a second discipline - The Illusionist which fits almost perfectly in the role i allready play anyway.

The Illusionist has several Talents the Thief allready has. To name one:

My Thief has Dead Fall (An Optional Talent for him) allready on Rang 8. The Illusionist get this Talent on Circle 3 as an Discipline Talent.

My Question(s):

Do i have to learn Dead Fall a second time ?
If not, which i think so: Since it is an Discipline Talent for Illusionists, can i use Karma on use ?

My opinion would be, that you dont have to learn the talents a second time, since you know them allready (I know Thread Weaving is different), but i used the Earthdawn Chareditor to "play some things through", and the ECD lists the talents a second time AND deduct Legend points also. And since Lortas is way more rulesafe than me i am puzzled


In diesem Sinne: Einen guten Rutsch ins neue Jahr, keinen Kater morgen früh und viele erfolgreiche Earthdawn Abenteuer im nächsten Jahr! Für meine Gruppe steht jetzt erstmal Shadowrun an, danach Dark Heresy und in einem halben Jahr ca. erst wieder Earthdawn.

Keles - Proud Thief of the 9th circle, lifesaver, hero and acquirer of precious things.

[werefrog]

Threadweaving isn't so much a Talent as a class of Talents; that's why you relearn Threadweaving for each Discipline.

However, in regards to learning the other Talents again, no you do not relearn from Rank 1. You pay it's 2nd discipline cost for Rank 1 as an optional rule. This means some GMs make you pay some don't. The reasoning is you are aligning the Talent to your new Discipline. Furthermore, there are some who say you must keep 2 Karma pools and have 2 Karma Rituals for having 2 Talents.

It becomes a Discipline Talent when you use as an Illusionist would use it, and it is not when you use it as a Thief would use it. Generally speaking, it's GM judgement which way your use is, and most GMs should be fairly lenient.

[Telarus_KSC]

[Tubben]

[Ogolar]

@Tubben: are you sure using the newest Version (0.36) of ECE.
Lortas said it´s already implemented.

If it doesn´t work i can ask him what to do!

[Tubben]

[lortas]

I have just test it again. Start ECE, add discipline "Warrior", increase Circle to 3, go to Warrior Talents, click random optional talents button, go back to the discipline tab, add "Scout", increase Circle to 2, go to Scout talents, click random optional talents button, go back to the discipline tab, add "Outcast Warrior", increase circle to 2, go to "Outcast Warrior" tab, click random optional talents button. If I now browse through all Talent tabs, there no talent twice.

So If you have been able to build a character where talents are twice, please let me know.

[Tubben]

Below are 2 pictures of the illusionist tab + thief tab.

You can see that the talents Disguise Self and Dead Fall got double entries. Each at rang 1 and rang 6.
You can raise both and you will be deducted for both.

Create an char, raise an thief to circle 9, add random optional talents, add illusionist at rang 6.


Illusionist


Thief

[lortas]

You have found a bug in my rule engine. Optional Talents which become a discipline talent of an other discipline, will be realigned to the new discipline but are kept (shown in brackets) read-only within the old discipline talent list (for historic reason and LP calculation reason). They are marked as realigned and can no longer be modified. They will not printed on character sheets. In your example this has only worked for the talent "Engaging Banter". This rule is described in the Earthdawn Players Guide, page 242, right column, last paragraph at top of the Gray box.

I have to take a deeper look why this as not worked for the other talents. Thanx for the hint.

[Tubben]