Earthdawn Companion?

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
Jaracove
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Re: Earthdawn Companion?

Post by Jaracove » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:29 pm

Is it true there are no spells in the Companion?

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Mataxes
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Re: Earthdawn Companion?

Post by Mataxes » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:44 pm

Yes.

Mainly, we're still working out what higher Circle spells will actually do. The extra thread rules give longer life to spells, so there's less need for a "Circle 9 version of a Circle 5 spell".

There's also the issue of available space. Two entire planned chapters were cut because of space -- Airships and Great Dragons. Additional spells would have taken up even more space.

It's not ideal, but we have plans for a spellbook soon after the last of the Kickstarter obligations are passed. It will have new spells, as well as updated versions of spells from prior editions.
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Gruber
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Re: Earthdawn Companion?

Post by Gruber » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:19 am

Mataxes wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:44 pm
Yes.

Mainly, we're still working out what higher Circle spells will actually do. The extra thread rules give longer life to spells, so there's less need for a "Circle 9 version of a Circle 5 spell".

There's also the issue of available space. Two entire planned chapters were cut because of space -- Airships and Great Dragons. Additional spells would have taken up even more space.

It's not ideal, but we have plans for a spellbook soon after the last of the Kickstarter obligations are passed. It will have new spells, as well as updated versions of spells from prior editions.
That's actually quite sad to read. The Wizard and Nethermancer of my group are one step closer to switching discipline and they actually feel "ripped off" (their words ^^). Now the have to wait much longer until they get what actually distinguishes them from other classes in warden and master tiers: Spells. There feeling of "progression" acutally ends with 8th circle. :(

Don't know yet, how i can persuade them to keep their discipline :cry:

Jaracove
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Re: Earthdawn Companion?

Post by Jaracove » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:06 am

Mataxes wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:44 pm
Yes.

Mainly, we're still working out what higher Circle spells will actually do. The extra thread rules give longer life to spells, so there's less need for a "Circle 9 version of a Circle 5 spell".

There's also the issue of available space. Two entire planned chapters were cut because of space -- Airships and Great Dragons. Additional spells would have taken up even more space.

It's not ideal, but we have plans for a spellbook soon after the last of the Kickstarter obligations are passed. It will have new spells, as well as updated versions of spells from prior editions.
If this means the additional spells will all be contained in only one more book as opposed to two more books - the companion and another book, that's a good thing.

Indragnir
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Re: Earthdawn Companion?

Post by Indragnir » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:26 am

Also, no Named Horrors... do you plan a Horrors book like the old? or maybe something with Named Horrors and Great Dragons?

Calamrin
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Re: Earthdawn Companion?

Post by Calamrin » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:04 am

No new spells?......

Words actually fail me a little at this point.

Will reserve judgement till ive read the PDF...but its a kick in the teeth for casters.

"The Companion provides expanded rules for players and Game Masters, taking the adventure beyond Eighth Circle, introducing new challenges, Talents, Knacks, and other tools needed to forge your legend. Make your story an epic tale that will be carried into the next Age!"

.....but if you are caster not quite so much.

Like i say will wait till ive looked at the pdf, but for a book thats supposed to primarily be a an advanced circle playing guide for all classes to give no spells to any of the casting classes...well im just shocked it wasnt viewed as essential.

Bonhumm
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Re: Earthdawn Companion?

Post by Bonhumm » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:01 pm

Calamrin wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:04 am
No new spells?......
Words actually fail me a little at this point.
Will reserve judgement till ive read the PDF...but its a kick in the teeth for casters.

Basically, the Companion primary function should be to create Canon rules about stuff that cannot be easily adapted from previous edition due to the crucial (but awesome) changes to the rules concerning Successes, Extra Threads and which talents/pool of talents are available to any discipline.

So the Companion should have included:

- Talents, circle bonuses and (new) Talents descriptions for Warden+
- New spells for Warden+

EVERYTHING ELSE was optional, but should probably include:

- Talents knacks + new knacks as skills mechanics
- Ideally, a canon list of talents/circle bonuses for the other 'standard' discipline of previous editions (Boatmen, Purifier, Windmaster etc.) would have been great. I know you guys plan to make an 'Adept's way' in the future but just giving a talent overview would have used like 2 pages per discipline at worst with maybe 4-5 pages for new talents.

- The Enchantment mechanics feels weird in there (although its awesome!) especially since a future 'magic book' is now planned.


All of this is especially true with half of the book used by relatively useless 'fillers' like new creatures and thread items: we have already tons of those in other editions and those do not require (much) work to be adapted to 4th Edition.


Just my 2 copper pieces, otherwise what is actually included in the book looks great so far.

Indragnir wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:26 am
Also, no Named Horrors... do you plan a Horrors book like the old? or maybe something with Named Horrors and Great Dragons?
NO! The Horror book is already the most evil tool ever created for ANY gamemaster of any game :D

But anyway, the already existing books on both Horrors and Great Dragons are well written, cover pretty much everything and do not require any rules adaptation for 4th Edition. New content might be good but with everything already in the Companion (and everything missing from it) I don't see it as a place for that (hypothetical) content.

Calamrin
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Re: Earthdawn Companion?

Post by Calamrin » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:40 pm

Bonhumm wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:01 pm


Basically, the Companion primary function should be to create Canon rules about stuff that cannot be easily adapted from previous edition due to the crucial (but awesome) changes to the rules concerning Successes, Extra Threads and which talents/pool of talents are available to any discipline.

So the Companion should have included:

- Talents, circle bonuses and (new) Talents descriptions for Warden+
- New spells for Warden+

EVERYTHING ELSE was optional, but should probably include:

- Talents knacks + new knacks as skills mechanics
- Ideally, a canon list of talents/circle bonuses for the other 'standard' discipline of previous editions (Boatmen, Purifier, Windmaster etc.) would have been great. I know you guys plan to make an 'Adept's way' in the future but just giving a talent overview would have used like 2 pages per discipline at worst with maybe 4-5 pages for new talents.

- The Enchantment mechanics feels weird in there (although its awesome!) especially since a future 'magic book' is now planned.


All of this is especially true with half of the book used by relatively useless 'fillers' like new creatures and thread items: we have already tons of those in other editions and those do not require (much) work to be adapted to 4th Edition.


Just my 2 copper pieces, otherwise what is actually included in the book looks great so far.

I agree with everything you said Bonhumm.

I want to add im a huge earthdawn fan...i got the PDF, im paying my way to support it.

Enchanting looks complicated but good, and knacks look really good, and the core talents there....

But im saying to the powers that be, you cant say you have had to drop airships, great dragons and caster spells as there was no room, which are all cannon or core rules, to keep in 253 pages of a 438 book... nearly 60% of thread items and monsters, which are so not essential.

Tattered Rags
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Re: Earthdawn Companion?

Post by Tattered Rags » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:06 pm

Bonhumm wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:01 pm
All of this is especially true with half of the book used by relatively useless 'fillers' like new creatures and thread items: we have already tons of those in other editions and those do not require (much) work to be adapted to 4th Edition.
I disagree that these things are useless filler. Creatures, Horrors, masks, etc., are valuable to GMs. This book is meant as a support to both sides of the screen. The idea that these things are available and adaptable from other editions presupposes that those GMs have the time to adapt these things or that they even have access to those books. Why force them to both buy other books and then work to make those work in their game? GMs deserve a companion to their guide just as much as players deserve on to their guide.

Saying that...
Bonhumm wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:01 pm
- The Enchantment mechanics feels weird in there (although its awesome!) especially since a future 'magic book' is now planned.
Yeah. I can only conjecture based on activity in the forums why this is in there. It's definitely a thing some players want to pursue. But so are spells (more so!).

Talents fit, Knacks fit, creatures fit, Horror fit. These are all things that people will generally go after.

Enchantment is more of a niche support.

Spells: if you've been mildly active of the forums, the lack of spells shouldn't be a surprise. However, yeah, this is the book that should have had it to support the progression of magicians. That said, I want the spells done right. At circle 9, 10, etc., lower circle spells work better now than in previous editions. But with no new stuff, it's a bit lackluster of a presentation for players. They get (awesome) new Talents, but they're missing half their reason for being the Discipline they chose.

To reiterate, though, the spells need to be done right. Sad that they couldn't get it squared away by now, but it is, at least, understandable. Quite a tall order, too, I would guess.
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Slimcreeper
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Re: Earthdawn Companion?

Post by Slimcreeper » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:44 am

I'm personally glad to see the expanded creatures and the like. I'd love to new players and GMs brought into the fold, and it's a tough sell to ask them to rifle through a bunch of out of print books to expand their repertoire. Plus, I rather like what they've done with them.

Enchanting rules - I have never cared about. So I would have voted to drop them in favor of pretty much anything else - but that's been true for the entirety of my ED fandom, so grains of salt freely distributed.

The really high-level spells ... they've tinkered with the spell mechanics in a couple of pretty significant ways. I'm okay with taking a minute to see how they shake out in play. But not for too long!

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