Teamwork Tests, Dagger Talent

[Slimcreeper]

As usual, I'm pretty constantly fiddling with things.

So: After some testing, I really like Teamwork Tests:

More than one person can work on a task, subject to GM discretion. In this case, whoever has the highest rank in the skill is the lead. The lead can have a number of people working on the test equal to their rank, including themselves. So someone with rank 3 can have up to 2 assistants. Everyone rolls. Use the best result out of everyone. [Potentially: if anyone rolls a Rule of One, something bad happens, even if the test succeeds. It's the Too Many Cooks in the Kitchen Corollary.]

This I haven't tested, but an alternate talent for Thieves, Troubadours, and Archers:

Daggers. A normal weapon attack talent that only works with daggers and knives. It includes both throwing and melee attacks with daggers and knives, but only daggers and knives.

[Bonhumm]

If you are interested with dagger combat, I'd suggest you take a look at the 'Close-In' talent in the Kratas book (3rd edition).

My Swordmaster in my Second Edition(!) game took the 'Slasher' specialization path (only exist in the Kratas book) and thus replaced the Maneuver talent by Close-in. It's a very interesting talent. Might seem a bit powerful when you read it but you have to keep in mind that you are losing Maneuver to get it, which is a very high cost and balances things up.

[Belenus]

More than one person can work on a task, subject to GM discretion. In this case, whoever has the highest rank in the skill is the lead. The lead can have a number of people working on the test equal to their rank, including themselves. So someone with rank 3 can have up to 2 assistants. Everyone rolls. Use the best result out of everyone. [Potentially: if anyone rolls a Rule of One, something bad happens, even if the test succeeds. It's the Too Many Cooks in the Kitchen Corollary.]

I find these two statements a bit contradictory.
I would let the assistants roll against the necessary difficulty and then give their successes to the lead, whereupon the lead takes his test with the corresponding bonus (or in case of failure or even rule one of the other, a malus).
This is also how other systems do it.

This I haven't tested, but an alternate talent for Thieves, Troubadours, and Archers:

Daggers. A normal weapon attack talent that only works with daggers and knives. It includes both throwing and melee attacks with daggers and knives, but only daggers and knives.

Why not just use the Blade Juggle talent?

[Lursi]

I like the close-in more than blade juggle. Just the bookkeeping of blade juggle with all these numbers is already a no-go.

Regarding the teamwork, I can see good aspects in both proposals. I guess one would have to do the math in order to see how an journeyman adept (step 14) is augmented by 5 novices (step 9) in both cases. Both for a difficult (15) and a very difficult (20) task. Also what it means in the game world to have 3 instead of 1 success

[burbigo]

I'm more into the very difficult tasks cause I really like the challenges when I play these kind of games.

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[Slimcreeper]

My thought with the teamwork is that it makes the rest more reliable, but I don't think an assistant could make grant you more successes. I could see the argument for both, though.

I'll have to dig out my 3rd edition books for that close-in business ...

[Aegharan]

I have good experience with the assistant giving the leader +1 or +2 per success against the difficulty. Or a -2 in case of rule of 1 :>

[Lursi]

I wrote down a train of thought but it derailed when I thought about it again...

Static bonus makes very difficult things to quickly mundane and does not make easy tasks failure proof.

Individual tests and taking the best roll (considering the failures) raises the question how the characters know who had the best approach and whose guidance shall be followed.

Adding successes is possible when the task is big enough to be done in parallel, like repairing a boat.

If one has the lead, I like the table at p.130 in the 4th ed companion.

It is a bit counterintuitive though on p.131 that the character with the lowest step takes the lead, but makes sense when looking from a “weakest link approach” this prevents a 9th circle guy from gathering a bunch of newbies and trying to push his output.

So, in my opinion RAW are pretty good, might need the addon that the alchemy rules (where only rank available and required) are taken for the weapon example (where you would need to compare steps?)

So if your step is 10 and the difficulty is 8 you add a +3 bonus to the adept in the lead.

A disadvantage is the fact that throwing dice in parallel or adding success or static bonus is easier to resolve.

So if you want to have a solution that runs quickly at the game table...

A complex question how much does it help to have a helpling, how much approach divergence causes a really knowledgeable helpling. How to model a team... answers pay well in real life.