Stacking (ED4)

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
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Kosmit
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Re: Stacking (ED4)

Post by Kosmit » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:42 am

Were there any playtests with threadweaving made Simple Action?

This could solve a lot of problems or cause a lot of new ones.

PiXeL01
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Re: Stacking (ED4)

Post by PiXeL01 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:17 pm

Simple actions are not limited to one per round so having the thread mechanism would lose meaning.

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The Undying
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Re: Stacking (ED4)

Post by The Undying » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:21 pm

You're kinda/sorta right, Pixel.

There is no specific limit to the NUMBER of Simple Actions you can take in a turn. It's really GM discretion. There is definitely a line, though - you're not going to get to do fifty things just because they're Simple.

However, whether something is Free, Simple, or Standard, you can only do Thing X once per turn.
Last edited by The Undying on Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lys
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Re: Stacking (ED4)

Post by Lys » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:25 pm

PiXeL01 wrote:Simple actions are not limited to one per round so having the thread mechanism would lose meaning.
Threadweaving is a Talent and you can only use a Talent once per round unless the Talent explicitly says otherwise. That's why Second Weapon doesn't give you arbitrary extra attacks each round even though it's a simple action. If weaving spell threads were a simple action, the only thing that changes is that you can weave and cast in the same round if you get enough successes. That may or may not be balanced, but it's not the same thing as getting unlimited tries to weave threads.

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Re: Stacking (ED4)

Post by Kosmit » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:37 pm

My thoughts exactly.

Allow TW as a Simple Action but only once per round. You can manage to weave more threads if you roll high enough.

That would be a change worth 4ed and I would like to test it.

And if you fail TW you can always do something else (maybe put some limit that after failed TW you can't cast a spell in this round even if it has 0 threads).

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Re: Stacking (ED4)

Post by PiXeL01 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:51 pm

I feel that Thread Weaving should still be a standard action but a caster should be allowed to cast the spell if they complete the pattern that round.

Would it not dilute the Enhanced Matrix talent though?

In any case I'll test it with my group (too)

Failure should not be rewarded. It like being able to throw a dagger or fire a misile weapon should your melee miss.

Lys
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Re: Stacking (ED4)

Post by Lys » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:11 pm

A way to do it that shouldn't upset the balance very much is to let a player spend a success to turn Spellcasting into a simple action. So if you're weaving one thread, and you get two successes you can cast that same round, but if you only get one success then you need to wait until the next round.

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RazanMG
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Re: Stacking (ED4)

Post by RazanMG » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:45 pm

It could be Threadweaving Knack - of at least rank 5

One additional success is rather too easy, looking at all mechanics Standard Action for TW + Standard Action for Spellcasting, but 2 Additional successes (just like some creatures need 2 for additional effects from attacks) would be ok.

Concise weaver :P (Threadweaving Talent Knack rank 6, Strain 1 or 2 - look below)
If adept managed to weave all required threads, and
Option 1: scored 2 Additional Successes (takes 1 Strain),
Option 2: scored 1 Additional Success (takes 2 Strain),
he can cast that spell in the same round as Simple Action.

Use option 1 or 2, or even both.

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Re: Stacking (ED4)

Post by Dougansf » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:26 pm

RazanMG wrote:It could be Threadweaving Knack - of at least rank 5

One additional success is rather too easy, looking at all mechanics Standard Action for TW + Standard Action for Spellcasting, but 2 Additional successes (just like some creatures need 2 for additional effects from attacks) would be ok.

Concise weaver :P (Threadweaving Talent Knack rank 6, Strain 1 or 2 - look below)
If adept managed to weave all required threads, and
Option 1: scored 2 Additional Successes (takes 1 Strain),
Option 2: scored 1 Additional Success (takes 2 Strain),
he can cast that spell in the same round as Simple Action.

Use option 1 or 2, or even both.
With the exception of being a Knack, this is exactly what I was going to post. :)

The main reason I don't think it should be a Knack is to make the game appealing for entry players at low circle. They can only get weave one extra thread anyway, so a high result doesn't do much for them (which makes this talent boring in comparison to most other talents now).

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Re: Stacking (ED4)

Post by Kosmit » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:54 pm

Or you change the mechanic that most players (at least those playing magicians) complain about by changing Threadweaving into the Simple Action. This will increase their perfomance in combat.

Don't get me wrong, I got used to that but new players and ED antifans always complain that fighter have attack-dmg and magician have weaving-casting-effect rolling going on. This could at least make failling in one of those things less annoying ;)

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