Assistance Mechanic

[Serespar]

Hi all, was looking for the group enchanting rules referred to in the post; only public item I could find online was this one (talks about the new enchanting patterns to be included in the companion, but not the group specific rules).

http://fasagames.com/earthdawn/alchemy- ... g-preview/

Does anyone have a source for this they could share?

[Tattered Rags]

My gut instinct is to have the "assisting" character(s) roll the test, then each success provides a +2 bonus to the primary test, mainly because of the implementation of the +2/success mechanic elsewhere in the system. Use the same DN as the base test -- modifying it to a base 5 (or 6) doesn't really work for me, because the task isn't any easier for those helping out (if you get my meaning).

I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but to me this seems silly. I mean, if person A is going to attempt a test against a TN of 10 and person B is going to help, then having person B roll against a 10 and applying a number of bonus steps proportional to their successes for person A's roll, then why not just say person B succeeded and stop there?

I posit there are 2 general scenarios where one will want assistance.
1) to get a certain number of successes
2) to meet a high target number with one success (at least)

For 1, I'd say you could use the idea above, but it might make more sense to just total successes (I mean, why trade beating the TN by 5 for only an average increase of 2?).

For 2, it becomes painful to have the assistant succeed against the TN only to have their bonus go to waste when the actual attempt fails.

But, like I said, I might be misunderstanding it.

I would like to edit the flat TN idea by saying that, instead, most times the assists would be against TN 6 (or something), but GM discretion to change it if the assistant is doing something really hard in order to help (like shoving a bad guy to position him so the Archer can better hit with the Smiting Arrow of Smitiness What Smites; that should probably be against the PD instead).

As for the task being no easier for the assistants, I think
Serespar's examples point out that most assisting can be done without actually doing the specific task. Handing tools, lending insight, double-checking, etc., can always help without the assistant actually doing the task itself. They're just making it easier for the task-doer.

There are some "working together" rules in the enchanting chapter of the Companion that forgo additional rolls, just provide a bonus -- but they are built around the idea of certain tasks needing a minimum rank in an ability in order to do them, and the bonus is based on the difference between the required rank and the helper's rank. That might be mined for ideas.

I dig how the examples in this section use Panda's players. Gee, how'd that happen?

Unrelated to that, I've always wanted to look at a Step System adaptation of Shadowrun (even before I took this gig) to cut down on the "bricks o' dice" requirements (especially when it moved into 4th Ed and did away with the shifting TNs).

Love this idea, even though I can't really get my mind to be okay with alternative rulesets to games. Just doesn't "fit in my box".

[Tattered Rags]

Hi all, was looking for the group enchanting rules referred to in the post; only public item I could find online was this one (talks about the new enchanting patterns to be included in the companion, but not the group specific rules).

http://fasagames.com/earthdawn/alchemy- ... g-preview/

Does anyone have a source for this they could share?

Nothing public: kickstarter-backer preview.

[Mataxes]

I dig how the examples in this section use Panda's players. Gee, how'd that happen?

Because he wrote the examples.

Many of the characters (and players) in the examples in the Player's & Gamemaster's Guides are from my own various games over the years.

What's the point of being a writer if you can't give shout outs to your crew?

[Mataxes]

Hi all, was looking for the group enchanting rules referred to in the post; only public item I could find online was this one (talks about the new enchanting patterns to be included in the companion, but not the group specific rules).

http://fasagames.com/earthdawn/alchemy- ... g-preview/

Does anyone have a source for this they could share?

Nothing public: kickstarter-backer preview.

Yeah. They're in the Companion, which is just waiting on a few final bits of art. The PDF will be out not too much longer after those last pieces come in, and print will follow a few weeks later.

[Serespar]

Thanks guys for the helpful suggestions.

Thought I would pull together a blended mechanic based on the posts to date, both for myself and any GMs looking through the forums for suggestions. Will be revisited once the Companion is published and/or a general form of the enchanting rules is made available. YMMV.

...

DRAFT

If the GM wishes to encourage teamwork, players may assist each other when it seems appropriate for moving the story forward. The core rules in the GM guide beginning on p159 provide guidance for modifying target numbers or the GM may provide a temporary step modifier as described on p161. If additional dice rolling enhances dramatic tension, the GM might adopt the following mechanic. This optional rule should only be used when it does not distract from the story and when the players can comfortably follow the optional rule without significantly slowing the flow of play.

Optional Rule for Assisting Others
An assistant may help a primary by making a test. The target number for the assistance test is equal to the primary test target number minus 5, with a minimum of 5. The minus 5 modifier reflects the difference between completing a difficult task and being helpful to the primary as they take point.

Each success on the assistance test results in a +2 step modifier for the primary when they make their test. The maximum number of successes an assistant can generate is the lower of their rank and the step of the underlying attribute. A primary may have multiple assistants, up to their rank. The maximum bonus the primary can take advantage of is equal to the lower of their rank and the step number of the underlying attribute.

Example
A patient is brought to a healer with a badly broken bone poking out through the skin (normal TN 8, adjusted for circumstances by the GM to TN 9). The healer has PER Step 7 and Physician rank 4.

Fortunately for the patient, the healer also has a trainee to help with holding the limb in place, gently moving the broken bones back where they go, and to brace the splints while they are tightened and clean dressings applied. The assistant has PER Step 6, a Physician rank 2, and his training helps him to have what's needed ready when the healer needs it.

The trainee makes a Step 8: 2d(6) test against the assistance target number of the larger of (TN 9 - 5 = 4, and the minimum TN for providing assistance of 5), for a final TN 5.

The maximum bonus the trainee can provide is capped at +2 (lower of Physician rank of 2 and PER step of 6).

The maximum bonus the healer can receive is +4 (lower of the Physician rank of 4 and PER step of 7).

On a roll of 2, an all ones roll adds complications to the patient's recovery [Probability 2.8%]
On a roll of 3 to 4, the healer would receive no bonus to their test [Probability 13.9%].
On a roll of 5 to 9, the healer would receive a +2 step bonus to their Physician test [Probability 52.8%].
On a roll of 10+ the healer would still receive the +2 step bonus, due to the cap on the assistance the trainee can provide. [Probability 30.5%]


Will ask one of the game groups I'm in for feedback / if they are willing to play test the mechanic for a bit. Again, this sort of thing is only a supplement to the on the fly modifiers most GMs seem to be using, in those situations where a thought out mechanic is worth the complexity and doesn't impeded the flow of the story.

Any comments / feedback / play testing appreciated.

[Anunnaki]

Hiya,

FWIW (caveat: I'm not using ED4, but a highly-modified ED3 on steroids), this is how I generally handle situations where assistance is a possibility. Here's the salient steps. Feel free to modify for ED4--shouldn't be difficult.

1. Assistance involves one Primary character and up to two Assistants. "Too many cooks spoil the broth..."
2. Assisting requires time, so characters can only provide assistance for talents/skills with "Action Type: Sustained" (the GM may decide otherwise, based on circumstances).
3. Each Assistant makes a Talent/Skill Test against the target Difficulty Number. Each Success Level (Result Level, Success, whatever, based on your ED version) gives the Primary character a +1 bonus to his or her corresponding Talent/Skill Test. If the Assistant achieves a Pathetic Result (Rule of One, all ones on the test, however you deem to deal with this if you even wanna bother -- I think ED4 did away with this? Anyways "a rubbish roll" ...), the Primary character incurs a -2 penalty.
4. The Primary character makes his or her Talent/Skill Test.

Hope this helps!

Take kaer, James

[Serespar]

Another GM and I were talking about this, and the short description of the optional rule is "drop the success level by one to assist, for a +2 per success bonus. Rule has more details / boundaries, but that's the gist of it." Thought I'd share the one line version.

[Slimcreeper]

I think I’ll run a test of this in my sometimes 1879 game, with the slight changes: +2 per assistant that succeeds, not per success. The main roller can coordinate a number of assistants equal to her ranks.