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damaging poison

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:23 am
by earcaraxe
1) At the beginning of the "Poison" section it is written that "a waepon coated in poison usually reqires a wound in order to affect the target" which I find under-defined. Does "usually" mean "unless said otherwise"? (None of the following description of poisons mentions "wounds".)

2) The description of "shadowmant" writes: "if the shadowmant causes damage w its stinger, the victim must resist the effects of damaging poison". A couple lines later it is written: "The shadowmant may spend an additional success from an attack test to inflict poison on the target." This I find contradictionary. Does a shadowmant need an extra success to poison its victim or not?

Re: damaging poison

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:31 am
by PiXeL01
Players need to wound their targets to poison their targets. NPCs or should I say monsters simply need to hit with their venomous parts.

Re: damaging poison

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:05 am
by Mataxes
It depends on how nasty you want to make poisons in your game, and what purpose the poison serves in the narrative.

(I'm personally reluctant to let PCs use damaging poisons 'easily'. I'm not fond of the 'murderhobo' style of play and damaging poisons can play into that all too easily.)

I often bring it back to the, "If the PCs are going to be doing something, the NPCs can do it to them." If your group is going around using poison on enemies? Then they run the risk of facing it themselves. Poisons are nasty (even the weaker ones). A sentient being using it... is kind of marking themselves as a villain (IMO).

Creatures like Shadowmants aren't in the same category -- the poison in those cases is a natural defense, and represents an added danger to those who face it.

Re: damaging poison

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:02 pm
by earcaraxe
Thanks for the replies!

I understand the intention. Still, the description of the shadowmant might need an errata because it is now contradictory.

Re: damaging poison

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:46 pm
by earcaraxe
1) it seems to me that according to the rules, damaging poisons can cause wounds. Am i right? can they? (so a shadowmant poison might cause about 5-10 wounds during its duration?)

2) i have found that "attacks can cause wounds". Is it stated by the rulebook that damage from spells (for example earth darts) can cause wounds? where? I mean, its not an "attack".

Re: damaging poison

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:53 pm
by Telarus
ED4 Combat p377
1. Make An Attack Test
Whenever a character attempts to attack a target, whether with a weapon or a
spell, he makes a test using the appropriate talent or skill. This type of test is usually
referred to as an Attack test. For example, if a Swordmaster is attempting to hit a foe
with his sword, he makes a Melee Weapons test. If an Archer is firing an arrow at a foe,
he makes a Missile Weapons test. If a Wizard is casting a spell at a target, he makes a
Spellcasting test.

5. Check For Wounds
If the damage from a single attack equals or exceeds a character’s Wound Threshold,
he takes a Wound. Wounds represent major trauma and slow the character’s ability
to recover damage (see Recovering from Injury, p. 380). Wounds can also have a
negative effect on the character’s tests (see Wound Penalties, p.381).
If the damage that causes a Wound renders the character unconscious or dead,
the player should still record the Wound. Some talents, spells and magic items have
the ability to bring a character back from the brink of death, but any Wounds the character
has will penalize such healing.

Currently, all single source damage "tests" have the chance to cause a single wound. I would count environmental, trap, etc damage as well.

Multiple Wounds in a single Damage Test is the realm of powerful magic like Onionblood, etc. Various form, but the spells in the past have usually used X Wounds + Damage Test (+1 possible Wound).

Re: damaging poison

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:59 pm
by Telarus
On the subject of Poisoned weapons, the GM Guide says "Characters can be exposed to poisonous substances in many different ways. Some creatures have venomous bite or sting attacks, and cults, assassins, or rogues may use poison as a weapon. A weapon coated with poison usually requires a Wound in order to affect the target, while some poisons work when ingested, and others work simply by contact."

I would not count natural attacks that are designed to deliver poison (scorpion/shadowmant/etc) as weapons coated in poison. Simple ruling, and it keeps the natural source of these poisons hazardous things to try to deal with.

Edit: In fact, I re-read the Shadowmant's abilities, and I think I missed something at first.

Actions: 2; Bite: 15 (13), Stinger: 15 (15)
Poison (10): If the shadowmant causes damage with its stinger, the victim must resist
the effects of a damaging poison (see Poison, p. 171). The poison is Step 10 [Onset:
Instant, Interval: 10/1 round].
Poison Stinger (Shadowmant, Stinger): The shadowmant may spend an additional
success from an Attack test to inflict Poison on the target.

So, the Shadowmant attacks from ambush, eerily silent as it comes out of the darkness. First action: Stinger attack (automatic poison if it deals any damage), second action Bite attack (no automatic poison, but if it scores any additional successes on the Bite it can trigger a Stinger stab that just delivers Poison). The other creature that describes this "bite and stinger" combo is the Witherfang, and it also has both of these abilities.

Re: damaging poison

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:50 pm
by earcaraxe
thank u very much for this thorough answer!

this shadowmant got even more deadly.

Re: damaging poison

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:30 am
by RazanMG

Re: damaging poison

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:48 pm
by Telarus
Actually, after re-reading the creature section, I agree with this. Special Maneuvers call out what attack they can be used with.

Still, "Bite and Stinger" is a potent combo. :) Thanks Razan.