Elementalist and thread item

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
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JBF
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Joined:Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:40 pm
Elementalist and thread item

Post by JBF » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:08 am

Hi all,

Many thread items have some properties that are linked to the presence of an True Element enhanted in it. Even more common magical irems have kernel of True Element embedded to it that give them their properties.

Having an elementalist in my group, I am weighing how much he should be able to detect this. Of course Astral Sight ( that he has nor acquired yet) should help him see that something is magical, but should his half magic somehow allow him to detect, determine that such or such has True Air/Fire or other into it? What system have you devised?

ChrisDDickey
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Joined:Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:02 pm

Re: Elementalist and thread item

Post by ChrisDDickey » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:48 am

The ED4 Companion has a Knack - Detect True Element that Elemantalsts, Weaponsmiths, and Scouts can learn at rank 4.
It has a note that Elementalists get this ability as part of their half magic and that they don't need this (leaving the question of why they can buy it, if they already have it and don't need it.
The half magic ability for Elementalists says they can detect elemental spirits, but does not mention that they can detect true elements.

So it is kind of confusing.

One interpretation is that all elementalists have the ability to detect true elements at a range of 30 yards. If they buy the knack the range increases to Rank x 100 yards.

Sharkforce
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Joined:Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:39 am

Re: Elementalist and thread item

Post by Sharkforce » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:18 am

strictly speaking, the requirement is ranks in the threadweaving talents of those specific disciplines, not actually being a member of those disciplines. that's a pretty minor distinction to make, but it is *theoretically* possible for a human journeyman to pick up elementalism (or the threadweaving talent for either of the other two disciplines, although that seems extremely unlikely) and use it to learn the knack.

(note: human versatility alone is insufficient, because knacks are restricted to talents learned via your discipline(s). there is a presumed-but-unstated exception to that rule for talents learned from paths, on the basis that there are knacks for talents that can only be gained through a path. for this reason, I am presuming that if a Journeyman were to learn elementalism using one of their path talent options, they would be able to learn the knack as well).

the less niche scenario would be that threadweaving could potentially have a higher step than half-magic.


having said that, the knack allows detection of lodes and pockets, which are actually something specific (more information is found later on in the enchanting chapter; the fact that you need the enchanting rules to make use of the knack probably has something to do with why it wasn't explicitly listed in the half-magic for elementalists in the player's guide. anyways, main point, a node is going to have not just true element, but a fairly substantial amount of it, and it is going to be in a pure form).

i would be inclined to allow the use of the knack or elementalist half-magic to detect true elements that have been made part of an item still, but it is a slight stretch, and due to lower volume and probable dilution I'd probably only allow it when handling an object infused with true elements. i would also allow the alchemy skill to be used, as well as appropriate knowledge skills, but again, they would need to physically handle or at least closely inspect the object in my opinion.

large quantities of actual elemental kernels (for example, if there was a chest with 100 elemental coins in it, or an airship with a bunch of true element kernels harvested and stored in it) I would allow full range for, but that sort of thing is obviously going to be pretty rare.

JBF
Posts:17
Joined:Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Elementalist and thread item

Post by JBF » Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:32 pm

Seeing this, I would think that when finding an object infused with elements, my elementalist will maka a half magic sense if he examines it and have some sense of the elements infused in it...

For the difficulty number, that s always a bit my difficulty with detecting magic (I had similar questions with Astral Sight)... I don t think that the Mystic Defense is the right choice, as the more powerful the item, the easiest it should be to detect the presence of magic. on the opposite common items with only traces should be more difficult... That will lead me to another question I will put in another thread

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