Weaponsmith in the group . . . I have questions

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
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Michael
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:33 am

Weaponsmith in the group . . . I have questions

Post by Michael » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:46 pm

So I have a new player joining the group as a weaponsmith. I'm sure there are going to be these questions asked so I thought I would start now

1: He wants to make blood pebble armor. Is that a knack? I know it says regular armor is under Craft Armor rules
2: The living armors like blood pebble says 'installed by a trained Weaponsmith'. Does that mean he needs a knack or special talent for that?

thanks

JetBlackJoe
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Re: Weaponsmith in the group . . . I have questions

Post by JetBlackJoe » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:49 pm

Creating Living Armor is made with the Enchanting Rules and Craft Armor Skill. See the Companion p. 137 "Living Armor and Shields". No Knacks are needed, but the Weaponsmith does need the Enchanting Pattern.
"Mind over Body. Body over Mind."
- Verron Vittraxi, Wizard Extraordinaire

Michael
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Re: Weaponsmith in the group . . . I have questions

Post by Michael » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:04 pm

thanks

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Weaponsmith in the group . . . I have questions

Post by ChrisDDickey » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:29 am

I think all weaponsmiths are trained to install blood pebble as well.
Most don't have the pattern to make it, but any can remove it, forge it, and/or reinstall it.
And I think all of them can reactivate crystal armors and shields for a year without any special knowledge or knack.

Michael
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Re: Weaponsmith in the group . . . I have questions

Post by Michael » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:20 pm

so another question about weapon smiths and I guess elementalists

Crystal armors (and light crystals) require a yearly enchantment

For example, Crystal Plate:
The enchantments must be renewed each year at a cost of 2,000 silver pieces.
Who does that enchantment and is that something the players can learn? I know it's going to come up so might as well get ahead of it.

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Weaponsmith in the group . . . I have questions

Post by ChrisDDickey » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:40 pm

Michael wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:20 pm
Who does that enchantment and is that something the players can learn? I know it's going to come up so might as well get ahead of it.
It did come up, it was the exact question that was answered a week ago in the previous post.
Once harvested, living crystal stops growing and starts to go dormant, gradually losing the properties that make it so valuable. An alchemical enchantment can reawaken dormant crystal with no harm, even if the crystal has been dormant for an extended period of time, but this maintenance must be regularly renewed. If the crystal is incorporated into a blood charm or thread item, it draws sustenance from the user either directly through their blood, or through the thread.
There are no detailed rules in any of the books for this. The books specifically say that Weaponsmiths can do it. There are no knacks for doing it. It is assumed (but only assumed) that anybody who could make crystal armor via the Alchemy and Craft Armor skills can also renew the armor. A crafting pattern would not be necessary, just being a weaponsmith or having Alchemy and Craft Armor skills should be enough.

A GM could very reasonably apply skill or circle limits if he wanted to. For example even a circle 1 weaponsmith might be able to renew the crystal enchantment on a Crystal Raider shield, but a GM might want to rule that there was a higher requirement to renew the enchantment upon an entire set of Crystal Plate armor. Or the GM might also reasonably not impose such a ruling.

Again, the rules do not specifically address this, but in accordance with the general rules on enchanting, it might be assumed that 1/2 of the cost of renewing living crystals enchantment is consumed in necessary alchemical supplies, and thus would have to be supplied/paid even by a PC weaponsmith.

Michael
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Re: Weaponsmith in the group . . . I have questions

Post by Michael » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:50 pm

I like the 50% discount, that sounds fair.

I'm not sure if I fully understand, does a weaponsmith have to buy the enchanting pattern (or whatever it is ) to make say crystal plate?

So if the WS does, I guess that would mean they would know the enchant

thanks

Sharkforce
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Re: Weaponsmith in the group . . . I have questions

Post by Sharkforce » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:30 am

it is presumably the same process as for keeping light crystals alive, i would think.

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Weaponsmith in the group . . . I have questions

Post by ChrisDDickey » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:57 pm

Michael wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:50 pm
I'm not sure if I fully understand, does a weaponsmith have to buy the enchanting pattern (or whatever it is ) to make say crystal plate?
According to the ED companion he does.

In order to enchant anything, the person doing the enchanting needs to know the recipe for how to make that thing.
Note that a weaponsmith does not need a pattern to craft mundane armor such as leather or metal plate. But according to the ED companion he does need to have obtained a pattern (recipe) to make pretty much anything with "crystal" in it's name. He also needs to have a pattern to "enchant" anything. So if for example he wants to make a normal spear, he can do so with just the knowledge he has. But if he wants to make a "crystal spear" or any other sort of enchanted sword or spear, he has to ether design or otherwise obtain a recipe (enchanting pattern) for that item. Each pattern only makes one type of enchantment. So if they want to know how to make a "crystal spear" and a "devastator spear", that would be two different enchanting patterns they would need to learn.

All this is explained in the Earthdawn Companion.

The upshot of all this, is that making custom one off magic items is a very expensive time consuming process. it is possible for an NPC to inherit their grandfathers recipe for making crystal spears, and maybe turn out a goodly number of these identical items every year. But to equip an adventuring party with custom designed equipment is expensive and hard.

But like I said, to the best of my knowledge, a WS does not need any special knowledge to renew the enchantment on crystal items. The enchanting pattern is only needed when the item is first created.
Last edited by ChrisDDickey on Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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RazanMG
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Re: Weaponsmith in the group . . . I have questions

Post by RazanMG » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:29 am

Let me help you guys a bit.

Ed4 Companion page 137.
"Living Armor and Shields. Living armor and shields are made according to the Craft Armor rules (Player’s Guide, p. 194). If the enchanter is not a Weaponsmith, they use the lower of their Alchemy or Craft Armor steps for the crafting tests. The process still needs an enchanting pattern."

So to renew enchantement on Living Armors you need to go to:
1. Weaponsmith that knows Enchanting Pattern for that item (even Circle 1)
2. Someone with Alchemy skill ( Rank 1 is enough) that knows that EP.
3. To simple things as much as possible -> to any Ws or any alchemist.

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