Familiars 4th edition

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Spader
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Familiars 4th edition

Post by Spader » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:09 am

I don't know if Familiars will be covered in upcoming books, but I had flash of how it could work with the fourth edition rules as a knack.
So let me know what you think of it.

FAMILIAR (talent knack)
Talent: Elementalism, Illusionism, Nethermancy, Wizardry
Requirements: Rank 5
Restrictions: None
Step: PER+Rank
Action: Standard
Strain: 0, blood magic (see description)
​This knack works as a special version of the Animal Bond talent. It allows the adept to turn a creature into an animal companion per the same rules with some exceptions. First, only one creature can be affected at a time. Second, when the animal gain loyal attitude toward the adept, she can make a one hour ritual and take 4 points blood magic that cannot be healed until the death of the animal. This ritual turns the creature into a familiar and it gives access to the following talents: Familiar Durability, Familiar Possession, Familiar Talk, Familiar Training, Blood Share (Familiar), Borrow Sense (Familiar), Call Familiar, Empathic Sense (Familiar) and Enhance Familiar. The adept can also learn a new Standard Matrix where the spell within can only be cast when the magician is touching the familiar.

The familiar also act as a minor pattern object for the adept.

Only creatures suitable as animal companion of circle four or less can be turned into a familiar.​

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Mataxes
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Re: Familiars 4th edition

Post by Mataxes » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:24 am

Familiars are possible for more than magicians (Beastmasters, for example, can make their primary animal companion a familiar).

So I would make it any thread weaving, not just the magician ones.
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Spader
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Re: Familiars 4th edition

Post by Spader » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:53 am

Mataxes wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:24 am
Familiars are possible for more than magicians.
Yes I remember. I just felt that making it available for every discipline diluted the niche of the Beastmaster and the Cavalryman. And with this game machanic, those disciplines woundn't have any benefits from a familiar.

Tattered Rags
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Re: Familiars 4th edition

Post by Tattered Rags » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:33 pm

What niche is a familiar supposed to fill? This implementation just seems like a mix between a matrix object and a poor-man's animal companion.

Is there something more that can be added? Should there be different kinds, one for magicians and one for others?

Perhaps extending the range of spells, allowing the caster to cast the spell stored in the familiar at a reduced effect step but centered on the familiar (that is, treat the familiar as the point of origin when determining range).

I don't have any other ideas, but I'm just not convinced familiars shouldn't have their own special niche that only they fill.
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Spader
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Re: Familiars 4th edition

Post by Spader » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:34 pm

Tattered Rags wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:33 pm
This implementation just seems like a mix between a matrix object and a poor-man's animal companion.
... well ... it's a way to describe it I guess ... can't really argue though.
Tattered Rags wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:33 pm
Perhaps extending the range of spells, allowing the caster to cast the spell stored in the familiar at a reduced effect step but centered on the familiar (that is, treat the familiar as the point of origin when determining range).
I see your point. But I wanted to make something using existing rules. The whole bunch of talents the knack gives access to are just specialised versions of talents that already exist. Just swap 'Familiar' for 'Animal Companion' in the name.

Also, I wanted to keep the power level at Journeyman and under. Extending the range or using the the familiar as the point of origin seems very interesting, but I feel those kind of power belong to the Warden tier.

Tattered Rags
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Re: Familiars 4th edition

Post by Tattered Rags » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:36 am

Spader wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:34 pm
Also, I wanted to keep the power level at Journeyman and under. Extending the range or using the the familiar as the point of origin seems very interesting, but I feel those kind of power belong to the Warden tier.
It's possible that one can treat a familiar as a special thread item. This would then require weaving threads to it, but unlocks some specialized things at higher tiers that goes beyond the basic matrix object. Lowest tier could unlock some aspects of what you describe in the knack, for example.

I don't know, I'm just spitballing. There's nothing wrong with what you've suggested. It just lacks something special to set it apart. I love the idea of a familiar, but I want it to have it's own place in the mechanics.
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Panda
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Re: Familiars 4th edition

Post by Panda » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:52 am

Greetings,

Without giving anything away, the general ideas and implementation of familiars have been designed. They have their own special "things" going on and they're different. It's important every character has access to them and reasons to go down that road if they want to — not just spellcasters. Like many things, it's important to get it done right, rather than now.

While it doesn't say very much, hopefully it was still useful.

Best regards,

Morgan

Tattered Rags
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Re: Familiars 4th edition

Post by Tattered Rags » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:21 pm

Panda wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:52 am
They have their own special "things" going on and they're different. It's important every character has access to them and reasons to go down that road if they want to — not just spellcasters.
Yay!
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Sharkforce
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Re: Familiars 4th edition

Post by Sharkforce » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:13 pm

well i have to say i'm hoping it's more along the "thread item" route than the "access to a whole pile of extra talents" route. most of those talents are useful primarily because they apply to a core part of the discipline's kit, and also to large extent because they can be applied to multiple creatures... that's a whole lot of legend points for an add-on that isn't really necessary.

(not saying it should be exactly like a thread item, just... needing 10 extra talents means that a maxed-out familiar is going to be about as expensive as all of your discipline and optional talents from circle 4 and below, which represents a far greater amount of focus than i think a familiar should ever take... though i'll grant that you probably won't want to max every single one of those extra talents for the familiar, i still think it costs an *awful* lot for something added on that isn't core to your discipline)

Spader
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Re: Familiars 4th edition

Post by Spader » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:21 pm

Panda wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:52 am
Without giving anything away, the general ideas and implementation of familiars have been designed.
Looking foreward to see the whole thing!

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