Spell recommendations Nethermancer 4th circle

Discussion on playing Earthdawn. Experiences, stories, and questions related to being a player.
Calamrin
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Re: Nethermancer Referendum: Gazing Long into an Abyss

Post by Calamrin » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:01 pm

Panda wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:20 pm


To that end, you can think all Nethermancers are evil and you aren't alone in the setting. However, you are objectively wrong. They have spells which tread a thin line, but not every Nethermancer uses every tool at their disposal. Indeed, access to Frighten and the associated spells can end a conflict without violence. If that use of Death's Head is perceived as more evil than murder, I am uncertain what to say.

I 100% agree with that, nethermancers dont have to be evil, they do tread a thin line, and they dont have to use every tool at their disposal....i agree with that all day long...i know could easily create a character that fits that, and be perfectly happy playing it..

Lursi
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Re: Spell recommendations Nethermancer 4th circle

Post by Lursi » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:05 am

TheOracle wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:54 pm

In the German version of the game the translators unfortunately decided to translate "Horrors" into "Dämonen". "Dämonen" translated back to English means "Demons". The word has a strong religious, more specific christian undertone. :\
I beg to differ.
The origin of the word Demon, or Dämon in german is the greek δαίμων (Daimon) and the meaning changed from representing the ghost of the dead to a warning or menacing voice in your head and/or implicit peril.

Sure, the christians made their thing from it and those who look no further find only the christian way of looking at it. Lots of ancient religions however had different ideas.

I would struggle to find a better German word to describe the concept of a Horror.
Of all things I lost, sanity I held dearest.

TheOracle
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Re: Spell recommendations Nethermancer 4th circle

Post by TheOracle » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:17 am

Lursi wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:05 am
I would struggle to find a better German word to describe the concept of a Horror.
You would say, that most modern day Germans wouldn't asscociate "Dämon" with servants of the christian version of Satan?

TheOracle
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Re: Nethermancer Referendum: Gazing Long into an Abyss

Post by TheOracle » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:57 am

Panda wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:20 pm
To that end, you can think all Nethermancers are evil and you aren't alone in the setting. However, you are objectively wrong.
Wouldn't that neccessitate objective morality? Good and evil are highly subjective categories. However I do agree with the rest of your post.

Lursi
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Re: Spell recommendations Nethermancer 4th circle

Post by Lursi » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:00 am

TheOracle wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:17 am
Lursi wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:05 am
I would struggle to find a better German word to describe the concept of a Horror.
You would say, that most modern day Germans wouldn't asscociate "Dämon" with servants of the christian version of Satan?
Half of the German population is member of a christian church, but only a small minority actually knows something about their belief. Especially the differences between protestant hell and catholic hell and their concept of satan are obscure to all but a very selected few.

I have spent 31 years in a scout association that is officially catholic. Me being an atheist has hardly seen anyone there that could give deep insight into religion.

With the Earthdawn target group you are even looking at people that -to my experience- are not deeply invested religious people.

Hence I don’t expect a conflict if you define terms according to your liking.

Dämon as an otherworldly entity is perfectly understandable.

Yours truly buys only english books however...
Of all things I lost, sanity I held dearest.

TheOracle
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Re: Spell recommendations Nethermancer 4th circle

Post by TheOracle » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:35 am

@Lursi: Our experiences seem to differ a bit. I do not believe that the understanding of the word "Dämon" has anything to do with the religious faith of the recipient. I think that the term was coined accordingly in pop culture.

Panda
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Re: Nethermancer Referendum: Gazing Long into an Abyss

Post by Panda » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:04 pm

TheOracle wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:57 am
Wouldn't that neccessitate objective morality? Good and evil are highly subjective categories. However I do agree with the rest of your post.
A definition of evil in which all Nethermancer are evil by viture of being a Nethermancer alone and no regard to their actions is not useful by any stretch of the imagination. My default assumption is we're all operating by moralities which are useful in some regard, even if with differing details (the meat of the disagreements). Removing that assumption makes any discussion overly cumbersome and pointless as I am not terribly interested in arguments just for the sake.

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etherial
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Re: Spell recommendations Nethermancer 4th circle

Post by etherial » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:06 pm

TheOracle wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:35 am
@Lursi: Our experiences seem to differ a bit. I do not believe that the understanding of the word "Dämon" has anything to do with the religious faith of the recipient. I think that the term was coined accordingly in pop culture.
Yeah, this is not a question about Church Doctrine but about Popular Culture. In the US, if you say "demon", they picture Tim Curry in red body paint and goat horns, not Titivillus.

Lursi
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Re: Spell recommendations Nethermancer 4th circle

Post by Lursi » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:43 pm

I would like to point your attention to Descartes, a french philosopher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_demon

In the first of his 1641 Meditations on First Philosophy, Descartes imagines that an evil demon, of "utmost power and cunning has employed all his energies in order to deceive me." This evil demon is imagined to present a complete illusion of an external world, so that Descartes can say, "I shall think that the sky, the air, the earth, colours, shapes, sounds and all external things are merely the delusions of dreams which he has devised to ensnare my judgement. I shall consider myself as not having hands or eyes, or flesh, or blood or senses, but as falsely believing that I have all these things."

I think that hits the suggestive and manipulative concept in our little game here pretty well.

I thank TheOracle for triggering this little search...
Of all things I lost, sanity I held dearest.

ragbasti
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Re: Spell recommendations Nethermancer 4th circle

Post by ragbasti » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:47 am

I'm just gonna go back to topic:

I really like the fog ghost spells, also you get 2 effects for 1 matrix.

You get the "Oh shit" spell for running away, putting a fog ghost in harms way while making your retreat. Or you put the fog ghost next to that annoying guy standing in the back who is throwing orders/arrows/spells at you.

On the other hand you can also give your two melee guys a really good buff, in case they are surrounded by a lot of people.

The negative side of your allies attacking everything until the end of the duration is easily offset in situations with enough targets.

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