Unmask - Does this Circle Four spell require caster to be Circle Five to function?

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True Neutral
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Unmask - Does this Circle Four spell require caster to be Circle Five to function?

Post by True Neutral » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:39 am

The Circle Four spell Unmask seems pretty simple - You cast an illusion/appearance only dispel on one thing and reveal it temporarily. So there is finally a chance to try it out before buying it, we are standing in front of a tower with a door that a tricksy type has seemed to make disappear. My Illusionist has Unmask in his grimoire and the group has time to let him tune it to try it out. Ten minutes later, the Unmask is masterfully cast and I get ready to roll the effect when I realize - this spell doesn't give the rank of the Dispel Magic cast. In fact, it doesn't seem to provide the ability at all from the description. Which means this Circle Four spell is utterly useless to a Circle Four Illusionist who has no chance to have Dispel Magic. Is that how you have been playing it? Anyone?

Was this written to be a spell that would be utterly useless to any Illusionist that took it unless they buy it several circles later after they have spent one of their optional talent slots on Dispel Magic? That seems like a hefty dependence.

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Unmask - Does this Circle Four spell require caster to be Circle Five to function?

Post by ChrisDDickey » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:19 am

Good Question.
It seems like the clear intention is that if the caster HAS the dispel magic talent, he should make the test using his normal talent step plus 5.
However you are correct that spell does not give any guidance about if the caster does not have the talent.

Sometimes when a spell gives a boost to an ability, it says that the ability may then be used untrained. For example "Dodge Boost" says that.
On the other hand, "unmask" does not say that it gives the temporary ability to make a Dispel Magic as a default.

I think a GM could reasonably rule ether way. Some might say it can't be done without the talent. Some might say successfully casting the spell allows one untrained use. If you GM says it can't be used untrained, then you are correct that the obviously best course is to not get the spell until you get the Talent.

The way I would do it is I would allow the untrained use (just roll your WIL (not willpower) plus 5). I would also say that (whether trained or untrained), if the result plus your rank in True Sight was over the dispel difficulty, then you still get to see through the illusion, even if nobody else can.

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Mataxes
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Re: Unmask - Does this Circle Four spell require caster to be Circle Five to function?

Post by Mataxes » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:36 am

The spell can be used even if the target doesn't have Dispel Magic.

(Note the range is 10 yards, which means the Illusionist can cast it on anyone, not just themselves.)

If the target does not have the talent, they may make the test as if they did.
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ChrisDDickey
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Re: Unmask - Does this Circle Four spell require caster to be Circle Five to function?

Post by ChrisDDickey » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:50 pm

Mataxes wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:36 am
(Note the range is 10 yards, which means the Illusionist can cast it on anyone, not just themselves.)
I had actually wondered if it should be possible for the Dispel Magic test to be made by an ally of the caster, and not the caster themself. But the text of the spell seems to disallow it.
The magician makes a Spellcasting test against the target’s Mystic Defense. If successful, he may make a Dispel Magic test with a +5 bonus as a free action against the highest Dispel Difficulty of any spell or talent concealing the target’s appearance.
According to the text, "The target" seems to be the creature or thing that has illusions to be unmasked, and it must be within 10 yards of the caster. "He" (that makes the test) seems to be "the magician". The rules of grammar might stretch as far as allowing "He" (that makes the test) to be the target that has the illusions to be unmasked, but that would be a very strange occurrence. If the intent was for "He" to refer to a third party, then there should be another subject noun somewhere.

The spell can (and probably should) be errata'ed or house ruled to allow a third party dispeller and make it clear that with this spell the Dispel Magic test can be made untrained, but neither is so much as hinted at in the text as published.


Anyway, grammar quibbling aside, We now know the intent.

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Re: Unmask - Does this Circle Four spell require caster to be Circle Five to function?

Post by Mataxes » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:03 pm

Good point on the phrasing. There's also the issue of (personal) confusion (temporary) over range and how it relates to a target. I'm at the day gig, so I don't have the book handy, but I think I didn't review things closely enough when answering the other day.

In this case, the "target" is the person you are looking to dispel magical disguises off of, ands the effect is (effectively) Willpower+5 as a Dispel Magic test against the dispel difficulty of the disguise. (And if the adept happens to have the Dispel Magic talent, that substitutes for Willpower).

Still, the point is you do not need to know the talent to use the spell.
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Re: Unmask - Does this Circle Four spell require caster to be Circle Five to function?

Post by True Neutral » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:44 pm

Thank you, that makes much more sense. So effectively the fourth Circle Illusionist gets the equivalent of a rank five Dispel (suspend) Magic just for Illusions.

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