character help - versatility, spells, and non-magicians

[delroland]

Hello all, first time posting; I dabbled in ED back in 1E, and I just recently found out FASA reacquired the license and ordered some shiny new 4E books.

I was working on a character using the free creation guide pdf, the theme being a Human Air Sailor that dabbles in magic (via Versatility), but I had some questions on how this would work.

As I understand it, Spellcasting, Patterncraft, and Spell Matrix are all universal Talents, but Thread Weaving is specific to each Discipline. Is that a correct interpretation?

So, for example, at character creation I intended on taking Versatility 1 and Patterncraft 1 to start building up a Grimoire of his very own. What other Talents would he need to cast via Raw Magic, via Grimoire, and via Spell Matrix? I would assume Spellcasting at the very least, and Thread Weaving (Discipline) and Spell Matrix to cast via matrix, but what about spells with 0 threads? Would I even need Thread Weaving for those?

Lastly, I see that magicians all start with a free Grimoire, but how much does a blank Grimoire cost?

Thank you all for reading, and I look forward to any assistance you can provide.

[Dale]

Easy question first. Cost of blank grimoire is whatever the GM would like it to be. It is honestly something that is inconsequential that I wouldn't worry about unless my players were in a specific, money-limited spot at the time.

As to needed talents. In my game I'd make the character have Spellcasting, Threadweaving (of the appropriate class), and Patterncraft (previously R&W Magic) before they could function as a caster. Technically a zero thread spell wouldn't require the threadweaving but as a GM I would say that knowing and understanding it (enough to have it at rank 1) is critical to understanding it enough to perform any casting. Your mileage may vary with your GM but in a general sense that is how I'd handle it. That would require Versatility at least rank 3 in order to have the three different talents. I would strongly consider waiving the TW talent requirement if the player in question gave their intent to never learn any threaded spells. This would create a different issue later of trying to find someone to teach them spells when they have failed to learn the basics of the discipline though.

[Slimcreeper]

I agree with everything Dale said. Non-caster throwing spells right out of the gate is s tall order. Maybe, though the character could be spell casting, thread weaving, but not know any spells. Instead she has a grimoir from (plot hook) with a few spells she can grimoir cast.

[Mataxes]

Personally, I would be reluctant to allow an adept with Patterncraft to learn spells without knowing the requisite Thread Weaving ability. It is the latter that, in my opinion, reflects the theoretical understanding of the magic involved.

Without that restriction, there isn't anything preventing a magician from learning spells from another magician Discipline, since they have all the other required pieces, and that's really not intended.

[RazanMG]

PG p.248
"A magician may only cast or learn spells if he knows the Thread Weaving talent for that Discipline."

That include Adepts that want to cast spells by Versatility.

[delroland]

Thanks all for the responses. I have a follow up question: do I need to spend a rank of Versatility per Spell Matrix, or is taking it once enough to purchase multiple matrices?

For example, let's say my character has Versatility(4) for Patterncraft, Spellcasting, Threadweaving(Wizard), and Spell Matrix. Can he take Spell Matrix multiple times? Or does he need to raise Versatility to 5 in order to take Spell Matrix a second time?

[etherial]

Thanks all for the responses. I have a follow up question: do I need to spend a rank of Versatility per Spell Matrix, or is taking it once enough to purchase multiple matrices?

Standard Matrix is one Talent, so the Human can only purchase one Standard Matrix with Versatility. They can eventually purchase an Enhanced Matrix, an Armored Matrix, and even a Shared Matrix with Versatility, but can't buy more than one Standard Matrix.

If they want to have more than one Spell at the ready, they should play a Spellcaster or start buying Spell Matrix Objects.

[delroland]

Standard Matrix is one Talent, so the Human can only purchase one Standard Matrix with Versatility.

I don't agree with that; all magicians start with two Standard Matrices and have the ability to purchase a third at character creation, so this clearly seems to be an example of a Talent that can be purchased multiple times.

[etherial]

Standard Matrix is one Talent, so the Human can only purchase one Standard Matrix with Versatility.

I don't agree with that; all magicians start with two Standard Matrices and have the ability to purchase a third at character creation, so this clearly seems to be an example of a Talent that can be purchased multiple times.

It can be purchased exactly once. As a Discipline Benefit, Spellcasters get two extra for free.

[delroland]

It can be purchased exactly once. As a Discipline Benefit, Spellcasters get two extra for free.

Is this the official rule, or is this your opinion? If the former, would you provide a citation?