High Circle Preview: Nethermancer

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Mataxes
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High Circle Preview: Nethermancer

Post by Mataxes » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:06 am

In case you haven't been checking out the main page, preview and commentary on the Warden and Master Nethermancer progression has been posted. Talent preview. Morgan's Commentary.

And here's the full progression.

(One really nice thing about the new site, it's so much easier to post previews and other content.)

Thoughts? Comments? Questions? Share them here!
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Baravakar
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Re: High Circle Preview: Nethermancer

Post by Baravakar » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:17 pm

I have a questions about this ability:
  • Otherworldly Willpower: The adept has been steeled by astral influences. The adept takes 1 Blood Magic Damage and adds +3 to their Willpower value.
Does this have a duration or is it a permanent bonus?
If it is an activated ability does it require an action to use?

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Mataxes
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Re: High Circle Preview: Nethermancer

Post by Mataxes » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:16 pm

Those are very good questions.

I need to ask Morgan what he meant, because I just realized I made an assumption that may not be the case at all... and similar abilities show up in a couple of other Disciplines.
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RazanMG
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Re: High Circle Preview: Nethermancer

Post by RazanMG » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:00 am

Looking at Ed bonus system (strain for short time advantages, Blood Magic Damage for long time bonuses) intent is rather clear, even if wording isn't.

Should be something like this:
"Otherworldly Willpower: The adept has been steeled by astral influences. The adept MAY TAKE 1 Blood Magic Damage and add +3 to their Willpower value, until he heals this damage. Only one Otherworldly Willpower can be active at a time".

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Mataxes
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Re: High Circle Preview: Nethermancer

Post by Mataxes » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:44 am

The problem with that is most of the time Blood Magic damage can't be healed until a condition is met. Like the Archer power Blood Bound Bow -- the character can't heal the damage until the effect ends (which, admittedly they can do at any time).

No duration is given, or an indication that the adept can end the effect when they wish to heal the damage, so I assumed it was basically "take 1 [permanent] Blood Magic Damage to [permanently] gain +1 Willpower Step" (using Value in the rules because that affects derived characteristics like Mystic Armor).

I'm almost certain that's the case, but the question made me realize that my reading wasn't the only possible one. Even if I'm right... the question means things aren't clear and we need to do more to make it explicit in the text. (I mean, thinking the bonus lasts for, say, TW Rank in some increment of time (minutes/hours/days), and the damage healed after that is a possibility, given the way some of the other Discipline powers work. You haven't seen them yet, but I have... so... yeah. Clarity is good.)

(Hell, that's part of the reason to do previews -- get versions up to have other people hammer on it a little bit, see if there are shortcomings we've overlooked.)
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PiXeL01
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Re: High Circle Preview: Nethermancer

Post by PiXeL01 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:46 am

Isn't blood magic's duration normally a year and a day, unless the character decides to prematurely end the enchantment and heal the wound? I think that's what it says in PG, though I'm not 100% certain

Baravakar
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Re: High Circle Preview: Nethermancer

Post by Baravakar » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:27 pm

Hmm..
The text is past tense: "has been steeled", I doubt its an activated ability.

This is not a direct step increase "+3 to their Willpower value"
When the Nethermacer reaches this circle, he takes the damage and increases his WIL score by three. Every three points of Ability Score value is a +1 increase to the step.

PiXeL01: Isn't blood magic's duration normally a year and a day
Player's guide pg239: The duration of Blood Magic Damage is typically a year and a day, ... In some cases Blood Magic Damage is permanent"

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The Undying
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Re: High Circle Preview: Nethermancer

Post by The Undying » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:29 pm

PiXeL01 wrote:Isn't blood magic's duration normally a year and a day, unless the character decides to prematurely end the enchantment and heal the wound? I think that's what it says in PG, though I'm not 100% certain
Not really. Most magical things that have a time length use a year and a day. Forge improvements are one example. Simple Blood Oaths are another. Basic Blood Wounds are another. But even here, this isn't always the case. For example, I believe a Blood Promise causes Blood Wounds that lasts Seven years and a day.

However, as Mataxes says, most things that cause blood damage for an effect have some kind of trigger to convert that damage to normal damage. Most Blood Charms fall into that category - Death Cheat causes Blood Damage until voluntarily removed or until the item activates upon the Namegiver's death. Desperate Blow/Spell causes Blood Damage until voluntarily removed or voluntarily activated by the Namegiver. For non-Charm examples, there is the Talent example Mataxes gave, but in ED3, some spellcasters could bind a spell to a location, taking a Blood Wound (IIRC) that lasts until the spell is released, dispelled, or activated.

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The Undying
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Re: High Circle Preview: Nethermancer

Post by The Undying » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:42 pm

Mataxes/Panda:

While I like the flavor of these higher level bumps, I have to ask why this is a good idea. Let's summarize this to a stub since Mataxes says it appears multiple times, and let's assume that it's an optional action. We then end up with something like "At Circle X, the Adept may take N Blood Damage to receive a permanent F bonus."

Would an Adept ever NOT take this bonus? I can't really think so.

If it's voluntary, does it happen as part of the Advancement, or is there something more than needs to be done? If nothing extra, feels like too big a deal made out of it. If not voluntarily, need to get rid of the wording that suggests it is.

Since Disciplines top out at a Circle 15, we know that this doesn't change (unless another Discipline does). What I mean is something like "At Circle 11, one Blood Damage for 2 Will. At Circle 13, an additional blood damage for an additional 3 Will." Since there's no scale to the ability, seems like unnecessary bookkeeping. For scale, I mean something like "at Circle 11, the Adept may permanently take one Blood Damage to receive 2 Will; this can be done up to three times, all at once or individually, at any time after they reach Circle 11."

Lastly, from a bookkeeping aspect, why is this Blood Damage necessary? As I said, flavorful, but it's a random note you have to keep forever. If it's permanent and can't be disabled, the blood damage seems especially unnecessary. However, if the idea is that the designers are leaving the door open for some kind of interest lore or drama, like an Adept seeks a way to multiple the ability, keep the ability while healing the damage, or something, that makes sense, but it'd be good to hold the community's hand there a bit since that avenue is super subtle.

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Re: High Circle Preview: Nethermancer

Post by Dougansf » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:18 pm

Do the Free Matrixes upgrade again during these Circles? Or do they remain 1 Standard and 1 Enhanced?

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