Wind Catcher is a Standard Action?

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Slimcreeper
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Re: Wind Catcher is a Standard Action?

Post by Slimcreeper » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:19 am

I think the talent is meant to be a parachute, not Featherfall. But making it featherfall is in no way gamebreaking, especially since so much of the airship Disciplines is meant to be used on an airship where so few adventures take place. Dogs need bones, yo, throw it.

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Wind Catcher is a Standard Action?

Post by ChrisDDickey » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:37 am

Except that almost all of those can usually be done better with Great Leap.
Great Leap is very great for chases and closing with a target a round or three before the rest of your party.

The dramatic entrances and exits of Wind Catcher will get you there whole minutes ahead of the rest of your party, and thus probably dead from being mobbed. I mean if you are in an airship or up a tall cliff, and you all want to get to the ground, the rest of the party is ether going to have to wait while the spellcaster casts a flying spell several times, or wait while the ship is maneuvered lower. There is great danger and probably little point in the Sky Raider making a one way trip so far in advance of his friends.

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The Undying
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Re: Wind Catcher is a Standard Action?

Post by The Undying » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:26 pm

I don't know what to tell you. You seem fairly set on not wanting to try to find interesting things to do with the Talent, which is a shame. There are plenty of great applications, a few of which I enumerated, and Great Leap does NOT do "almost all of those things better" (one has distance of 10-20, one has distance in the multiple hundreds). I can't make you like the Talent or give it a chance though. *shrug*

Anyways, as I said, probably best to talk to your GM about swapping it out. Best of luck.

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etherial
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Re: Wind Catcher is a Standard Action?

Post by etherial » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:33 pm

The Undying wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:26 pm
I don't know what to tell you. You seem fairly set on not wanting to try to find interesting things to do with the Talent, which is a shame. There are plenty of great applications, a few of which I enumerated, and Great Leap does NOT do "almost all of those things better" (one has distance of 10-20, one has distance in the multiple hundreds). I can't make you like the Talent or give it a chance though. *shrug*

Anyways, as I said, probably best to talk to your GM about swapping it out. Best of luck.
I think there's a big difference between "can you find interesting things with this Talent" and "can you integrate this Talent into your adventuring group". I think Wind Catcher as is passes the first test and fails the second.

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The Undying
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Re: Wind Catcher is a Standard Action?

Post by The Undying » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:47 pm

Pretty much any of the things I enumerated would be useful for an adventuring group. Sometimes, getting there first or faster is important, even if you have to do it alone. Separation doesn't mean instant nor guaranteed death. A sneak attack is not code for attempting to take an army single handedly. Spanning distances with a rope in hand can help others get across something they couldn't otherwise. Scouting upwards and expediting the return with lower risk of injury to boot seems like a good thing. Jumping behind a wall from above to open a gate also seems like it could be very helpful to the group.

As I said, lots of great uses - but yes, also as I said, they require jumping from a height. Just need to have some imagination to find novel uses. But you have to WANT TO try. Of course, as with all things, YMMV.

Dougansf
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Re: Wind Catcher is a Standard Action?

Post by Dougansf » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:57 pm

Since Gliding Stride has uses outside of reducing falling damage, I would argue that it is impinging on the shtick of Wind Catcher, which only reduces fall damage.

In a similar vein, despite it’s description, I don’t allow Air Dance to let characters avoid ground traps or walk on water. That’s what Gliding Stride, Great Leap, and various methods of flight are for.

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The Undying
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Re: Wind Catcher is a Standard Action?

Post by The Undying » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:46 pm

Overlap is a good thing when done intentionally, not a bad thing. Wind Catcher handles LONG falls, Gliding Stride does not. Gliding Stride automatically kicks in when you start to fall, Wind Catcher does not. There is a basic overlap - just like Melee Weapon and Unarmed Combat both allow you to Attack - but there is also very meaningful difference. This difference provides trade space - if you never expect to fall more than ~5 yards, yes, Gliding Stride is infinitely better; if there's a chance you'll fall more than that, Gliding Stride is basically useless for falling mitigation. The remainder of the trade space is which is more important to you: very long distance falling, or unhindered aerial vertical/horizontal movement for a dozen yards? Trade space is interesting and prevents any one thing from being a panacea - just like how Melee Weapon is not STRICTLY better than Unarmed Combat given that there are plenty of situations that could lead you to having to fight unarmed.

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Wind Catcher is a Standard Action?

Post by ChrisDDickey » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:33 pm

Wind Catcher handles jumps of any length up to Long. There is no reason it can't be used for a 3 yard jump, and the example in the book is a 20 yard jump. And yes it can handle jumps/falls of several hundreds of yards.

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The Undying
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Re: Wind Catcher is a Standard Action?

Post by The Undying » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:14 am

ChrisDDickey wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:33 pm
Wind Catcher handles jumps of any length up to Long. There is no reason it can't be used for a 3 yard jump, and the example in the book is a 20 yard jump. And yes it can handle jumps/falls of several hundreds of yards.
I don't see anything in the thread that claims Wind Catcher can't be used for short distances. Maybe I'm missing your point.

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Mataxes
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Re: Wind Catcher is a Standard Action?

Post by Mataxes » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:20 pm

Wind Catcher has been a Standard action since first edition. I've never really wondered what the design motivation for that was, never having run into it as a problem before. It wasn't a talent that got much attention during ED4 development, so the action type wasn't changed.

We have plans for a "feather fall" knack for Wind Catcher that will either be in the Companion, or Mystic Emporium (the book that will have a bunch of stuff cut from the core books for space reasons). I don't recall offhand what rank it will be, but probably not very high.

That said, I don't think you'll break anything if you feel the need to make it a movement replacing action like Great Leap or Gliding Stride.
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