Mounts with Stealthy Stride

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ChrisDDickey
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Mounts with Stealthy Stride

Post by ChrisDDickey » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:40 am

If a mount has Stealthy Stride (such as a Troajin ridden by a Dwarf).
Can the pair of them move (at half speed) as quietly as the mount, or would they move as quietly as the less quite of the two (which is to say, not quite at all)?

It seems to me that a rider sitting upon a quite mount, and not taking his own movement, his feet not even touching the ground, would be as quite as if he was standing still, and the mounts stealthy stride test would be the result for the pair of them.
Last edited by ChrisDDickey on Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PiXeL01
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Re: Mounts with Stealthy Stride

Post by PiXeL01 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:29 pm

I'm with you on this one. A trained mount should be able to stalk if the rider keeps quiet and low.

Slimcreeper
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Re: Mounts with Stealthy Stride

Post by Slimcreeper » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:38 am

I think I'd allow a trick riding in lieu of a Stealthy Stride on the part of the rider.

Jason
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Re: Mounts with Stealthy Stride

Post by Jason » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:54 pm

Let me ask you a par of questions that might help here.

How would you check to see how stealthy I stood in the corner of a room? (Stealthy Stride, correct)
How would a mount make you suddenly more stealthy then you would be standing still (and if the mount is moving, you are too)?
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ChrisDDickey
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Re: Mounts with Stealthy Stride

Post by ChrisDDickey » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:53 am

The point is that you are not stepping on any leaves or twigs.
Jason, Are you suggesting that a person standing in a corner needs to make the same test as somebody moving without any bonuses or penalties?
I mean a Stealthy stride test takes as it's baseline that you are moving at up to half your movement rate. Somebody sitting upon the saddle of a creature that was slowly and gently moving should not have to make a stealthy stride test, because he is not striding. And if he does have to make "sit quietly" test, it should have some huge bonuses over a "move quietly" test.

Jason
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Re: Mounts with Stealthy Stride

Post by Jason » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:40 pm

Chis,
Are you saying you would allow someone to hide perfectly with out a test if they weren't moving? Because I wouldn't, I would allow a bonus for being in a well chosen location holding still etc. (per rules 165ED4GM -3 to +4 depending on concealment & others for general environment).

Being stealthy isn't just about not stepping on leaves or twigs. It is also about timing your movements, your breathing, knowing where someone might be looking, making sure your things on your body don't make noise, etc.

Also being on a mount, means you are interacting with the saddle/tackle (normally). Also, unless you are allowing the mount complete anonymity on where it goes, your knowledge of where to best move would become important. You would need to know when to have it move/not move, where to move, etc.

now related to the rules (162-165 ED4GM)-> a hidden target (which I read as still or concealed if moving) -> typical difficulty: targets' dex step
and it would be modified by the target's concealment/etc.
So an untrained person that finds a location that completely conceals them, would be dex step + 4.

Myself, I would have either both the rider and mount roll... or just the lower of the two roll, because who ever is worse would be the limiting factor.
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Telarus
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Re: Mounts with Stealthy Stride

Post by Telarus » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:41 pm

I also referenced the "Avoiding Attention" rules (9128 ED4GM - in the Travel section) when sketching out designs for ships/companies of characters/creatures suddenly encountering each other. That reference says:
If, when traveling through the wilderness, a group of characters is not making any
special efforts to avoid notice, the Difficulty Number for patrols, creatures, or other
characters to notice them is the lowest Dexterity Step of all characters in the group,
modified for visibility and other factors.

When approaching areas prone to conflict, known for being unfriendly to
outsiders, or for any number of other reasons, travelers may wish to avoid notice.
Moving through an area unobtrusively will reduce the chance the group will draw
unwanted attention, at the expense of taking more time. **Travel time is doubled**, but
the Difficulty Number for spotting the group increases to the highest Dexterity Step in
the group (with appropriate modifiers).

Stealthy Stride requires you to be going half-speed (equivalent to the above starred section). In my games this means that the difficulty to spot them while at half speed would either be the higher of their 2 Dex steps, or the Test result of a single roll (PC choice). So, they can either go with the higher Dex step (a sure thing) or gamble it with one roll (rolling low sets the difficulty to notice the pair low - no rerolls).

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Mounts with Stealthy Stride

Post by ChrisDDickey » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:03 am

Jason wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:40 pm
Are you saying you would allow someone to hide perfectly with out a test if they weren't moving? Because I wouldn't, I would allow a bonus for being in a well chosen location holding still etc. (per rules 165ED4GM -3 to +4 depending on concealment & others for general environment).
So would you allow a Dex check with a +4 bonus for have chosen to be upon a creature with Stealthy Stride? Because that seems like a really excellently chosen location to me.
Jason wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:40 pm
Being stealthy isn't just about not stepping on leaves or twigs. It is also about timing your movements, your breathing, knowing where someone might be looking, making sure your things on your body don't make noise, etc.
A person riding a mount trained in Stealthy Stride is not stepping on leaves or twigs, the rider is not putting feet down at all. The Stealthy Mount is also in charge of timing the movements, and only moving when nobody is looking. So the riders only responsibilities from your list is to quietly breath in time with the mount and make sure things on his body don't make noise, which if you have gone to the trouble of obtaining a stealthy mount you have probably also wrapped the metal bits of it's harness with cloth or leather and done other noise muffling things.

The mount does not have complete autonomy on where it goes, but in stealth mode a rider would need to give the mount a direction, and let the mount pick the details of how to get there.

And once again, having the rider and mount both roll Stealthy Stride is not really an option, since Stealthy Stride can not be used untrained and the specific case being asked about is a character that does not have Stealthy Stride is riding upon a mount that does.


Telarus: Thanks, I had not recalled that section. It is not 100% an exact match with the situation, since the one is a patrol happening to notice the party group, and the other is a guard that may be on alert due to having seen other party members noticing or not noticing some of the party, but as you say, it does seem related enough to possibly be a precedent.

So incorporating the suggestions here, the possible ways it could be resolved is that the GM picks one of the following.
  • A stealthy mount is irrelevant, and can't roll Stealthy Stride unless his rider also has Stealthy Stride.
  • A mount can roll Stealthy Stride, and the result will cover both rider and mount.
  • The mount can roll Stealthy Stride, and the rider can roll concealment, possibly with a bonus of some sort, and the lower result is used for both.
Does that seem about right?

Calamrin
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Re: Mounts with Stealthy Stride

Post by Calamrin » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:09 am

Off the top of the head, spur of the moment GM decision, id rule mount rolls stealthy stride, with say a +2 modifier to difficulty for each person its carrying whos also trying to stay low profile....or something like that.

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etherial
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Re: Mounts with Stealthy Stride

Post by etherial » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:50 pm

Calamrin wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:09 am
Off the top of the head, spur of the moment GM decision, id rule mount rolls stealthy stride, with say a +2 modifier to difficulty for each person its carrying whos also trying to stay low profile....or something like that.
Personally, I'd give the mount a penalty if it's responsible for helping to hide the clanking lumbering 200 lb independent entity messing with its mojo.

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