Astral Sensing and Thread Sight

[Jaracove]

Page 211-212

The two examples using Astral Sensing and Thread Sight. I don't see any mechanical difference. All I see is Astral Sensing gives more information (that the GM has to make up) than Thread Sight, yet, what can you do with that extra info?

As far as I can tell, Astral Sensing reveals there is fire, air and earth elemental magic at work. But where does this information lead?

What can yo do with it?

[Mataxes]

Hoo boy. I'll tackle the easier part of that question first.

Thread Sight doesn't really have any mechanical impact; it's just something that needs to exist within the setting for adepts to weave threads. (i.e. If you want to weave a thread to a magic item to empower it, you need to be able to see the pattern so you can attach the thread.)

As for what you can do with astral sensing (basically, astral sight)? I generally use it as an investigative and information-gathering ability. It's an extra sense that allows you to learn information you of which you might otherwise be ignorant. Kind of like Awareness, but for magical/astral stuff.

For example, if you discover a forgotten kaer, you can take a look at astral space and maybe get a sense of whether a Horror breached it, how recently, and whether they might still be looking around (based on the level of astral taint). If you sense traces of Elementalist magic at a crime scene, that's a clue that might help you discover how the crime was committed, or narrow down your suspects. it makes identifying magic items pretty easy. It lets you see magical patterns, which (combined with Patterncraft) can provide useful or helpful information.

The degree to which this is useful in a game will depend on how much thought the GM is putting into the astral component of scenes and settings. (And if you're a GM, and one of the characters has Astral Sight, you should be putting thought into this.)

[Jaracove]

That's pretty much what I thought it was, but the clarification is great

Thanks

[etherial]

What sorts of things Astral Sensing tells you depends a lot on what you're pointing it at.

Point it at a living thing and you can see if it's got any active magical effects up, any blood magic damage, etc. Extra Successes may let you narrow things down a bit.

Point it at a Namegiver and you can also tell if they're an Adept and see their Spell Matrices. Extra Successes may let you know whether they're holding any items they've Tied Threads to, their approximate Circle, let you make Patterncraft tests to guess at what's in their Matrices, even suss out their Discipline(s) if it's one you're intimately familiar with.

[Jaracove]

This is the sort of thing that foxes me because it just brings up more questions. I'll try and explain.

What sorts of things Astral Sensing tells you depends a lot on what you're pointing it at.

I like this description, it sums up nicely, in general terms, what AS is used for.

Point it at a living thing and you can see if it's got any active magical effects up

Ok, as Mataxes said, it's like a magical investigation skill (or words to that effect)

Ok here is where I start feeling like I'm on shaky ground.

any blood magic damage, etc. Extra Successes may let you narrow things down a bit.

Who decided it can detect blood magic? You? The rulebook? If you, how did you know, if the rulebook, I couldn't find it.

Point it at a Namegiver and you can also tell if they're an Adept and see their Spell Matrices. Extra Successes may let you know whether they're holding any items they've Tied Threads to, their approximate Circle, let you make Patterncraft tests to guess at what's in their Matrices, even suss out their Discipline(s) if it's one you're intimately familiar with.

The rules do no specifically call out any of this and that's my biggest issue. It's vague on the details.

For example. I use Perception to search around the room and find a bloodied dagger. This is intuitive, logical, and follows patterns we are all familiar with. But Astral Sight? It feels a little like this to me:

"Ok here's Astral Sight, it can detect magical stuff. Go!"

I'm left a little bemused because it's all a little vague.

[etherial]

Ok here is where I start feeling like I'm on shaky ground.

any blood magic damage, etc. Extra Successes may let you narrow things down a bit.

Who decided it can detect blood magic? You? The rulebook? If you, how did you know, if the rulebook, I couldn't find it.

Point it at a Namegiver and you can also tell if they're an Adept and see their Spell Matrices. Extra Successes may let you know whether they're holding any items they've Tied Threads to, their approximate Circle, let you make Patterncraft tests to guess at what's in their Matrices, even suss out their Discipline(s) if it's one you're intimately familiar with.

The rules do no specifically call out any of this and that's my biggest issue. It's vague on the details.

For example. I use Perception to search around the room and find a bloodied dagger. This is intuitive, logical, and follows patterns we are all familiar with. But Astral Sight? It feels a little like this to me:

"Ok here's Astral Sight, it can detect magical stuff. Go!"

I'm left a little bemused because it's all a little vague.

It lets you see patterns. Anything with a pattern can (with time, experience, and enough successes) be understood.

[Jaracove]

It lets you see patterns. Anything with a pattern can (with time, experience, and enough successes) be understood.

That's it? If that's it, that's great. I can work with that.

One wrinkle, I'm sure blood magic damage doesn't have a pattern but you mentioned it in your earlier example. I assume you mean (specifically) you can see the parts of the True Pattern that has been damaged by blood magic?

[Mataxes]

It lets you see patterns. Anything with a pattern can (with time, experience, and enough successes) be understood.

That's it? If that's it, that's great. I can work with that.

Pretty much. Just remember that nearly everything has a pattern, and the pattern describes what is magically important or significant about the thing. (There might not be much -- looking at the pattern of a random rock beside the road isn't likely to tell you much of interest.)

One wrinkle, I'm sure blood magic damage doesn't have a pattern but you mentioned it in your earlier example. I assume you mean (specifically) you can see the parts of the True Pattern that has been damaged by blood magic?

That's a fair way to put it.

The difficulty is largely up to you (personally, I would probably require an extra success to notice something like blood magic damage unless the target is suffering from a lot of it). In most cases it's Mystic Defense + modifier based on local astral conditions.

[etherial]

It lets you see patterns. Anything with a pattern can (with time, experience, and enough successes) be understood.

That's it? If that's it, that's great. I can work with that.

One wrinkle, I'm sure blood magic damage doesn't have a pattern but you mentioned it in your earlier example. I assume you mean (specifically) you can see the parts of the True Pattern that has been damaged by blood magic?

Yup. I mean, you won't really be able to tell a Blood Oath from a hole in the ground, but you should be able to see where a Death Cheat Charm has damaged someone's pattern, and if you've studied Blood Charms (or can make some educated guesses), you could surmise what it is.

[Jaracove]

Thanks all

It's appreciated

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The two Jehuthra's at the start of Mists of Betrayal are a tough nut to crack. If you've GM'd Mists, did you use just one, or did you go with some other idea completely?