Group Pattern threads & enhancing Thread Weaving

[PiXeL01]

I was wondering whether the subject was even an option. Having a possibility of 19 active threads and as a caster improved casting ability. I would of course suspect that should these threads be used for items then when working alone the threads would unravel and cause the adept to lose the LP invested. Still, is it possible?

[Mataxes]

I'm not quite clear on your question, but if I understand it correctly...

Yes, you can use group threads to increase your Thread Weaving talent. Since the thread bonus affects anything based on rank, this does mean that (in addition to a better Thread Weaving Step) weaving a thread to your Thread Weaving talent allows you to weave more threads.

Whether this is actually worth it or not is an exercise left to the reader. It likely depends on how common thread items are in your game, and whether you have the Legend to weave all those threads.

If you're in a situation where the bonus from the group thread wouldn't apply, I wouldn't have the extra threads unravel (or lose the Legend as a result). I would just have them be dormant -- which threads those are would be the ones more recently woven (so if you've got 3 bonus ranks, and all your available slots full, the most recent 3 threads would be dormant). When the group bonus applies again, those threads reactivate.

(Personally, I'm pretty generous when it comes to applying group thread bonuses, partly to reduce the amount of bookkeeping required, and partly because the player/character has invested the Legend into it, let them have the bonus. If there is some suitably dramatic and justifiable story reason for the bonus not to apply, I might remove it, but I've not run into one of those circumstances in my time running the game.)

[PiXeL01]

Please excuse my poorly written question.

You did however address everything I wanted to know, so thank you very much.

[Kosmit]

I thought that in earlier editions bonuses to Threadweaving's Rank can't raise the cap for a number of threads that can be active. Has it changed in 4th?

[RazanMG]

Actually:
GMG p.204
Thread Items
"Add a +1 rank to a talent, or to Thread Weaving tests."

Thread Weaving from items dont gets rank.

[The Undying]

Actually, that statement is two-fold: (a) Add a +1 rank to a talent, or (b) to Thread Weaving tests.

So, a Thread Item could have:
+1 Thread Weaving (Elementalist)
or
+1 Thread Weaving tests

The former definitely does give a plus one to the rank, which should increase any rank-related limits. However, it provides no benefit to a multi-Discipline magician when they are using, say, Thread Weaving (Nethermancy). It's also pretty useless for a single-Discipline magician if they are not an Elementalist.

The latter is highly useful to either a single-Discipline of multi-Discipline magician as it improves all Thread Weave tests, regardless of the Discipline. However, since it does not improve rank, it does not increase any rank-related limits.

[Mataxes]

That's slightly different -- thread items should not have the ability to grant extra ranks in Thread Weaving (and therefore extra thread slots), because that kind of gets around the whole point of having a limit to the number of thread items you can have. (Like, a wand that costs a thread but effectively refunds that slot). If you want to extend that to group pattern threads, that's fine.

I think part of the reason the limit was introduced in ED3 was to avoid the questions about what happens to threads in those 'extra' slots if, for some reason, they become inactive/dormant.

[The Undying]

@Mataxes

Makes total sense. In that case, though, I think it's worth some clarification for the GMG (if those are being collected somewhere). As I noted above, the current Thread Item statement doesn't suggest that Threadweaving ranks should not be provided, just that that an available alternative is to give a bonus to Threadweaving tests.