Key Knowledges

[Slimcreeper]

You have to beg, steal or borrow the Pattern Item in order to use it. You have to retain ownership.

You still have to get Research Knowledge and Test Knowledge, but you might do them in reverse order - do the research to find that the item is a pattern item, acquire it, and then do Item History to verify that it is in fact representative of an understanding of the True Pattern's Research Knowledge.

The reason you can use adventure or research is to give the GM some leeway in pacing the story. It might serve the adventure to have a side quest to gain the info, but it might not. Because there is a lot of information that just isn't readily available, the GM can say that the library suggests you will find more information if you talk to the obsidiman who often meditates on the highest peak in the Caucavic Mountains. After battling ice flyers, honey badgers, and whatnot, you find him. He has the information, but it is written in Obsidimen. In order to truly understand, he believes you must know the whole story, and so, he offers to read the whole journal to you - not just part - but he refuses to leave the mountain. So are you going to sit on a mountain for a week in a howling blizzard and get frostbite on your nethers? Or are you going to try to convince him that you will need time to read it on your own and that you will return it once you are done? Either way, you need to find that Bob once use his quiver to splint his sister's broken leg when they were adventuring in the mountains, trying to save her beloved from a terrible band of marauding obsidimen. Plus the book weighs like 20 lbs and won't fit in your backpack.

Or, the GM really wants to get on with the main adventure, and while thumbing through the local lady's library you find the transcript of a Troubadour's song that tells the same story.

Just to clarify (if that's the word) - a Pattern Item does have a magical pattern, just not a self-sustaining True Pattern. Astral sight would show it to be magically active. It is sort of magically quantumly entangled or resonant with an actual True Pattern.

[Mataxes]

So:

"Slayer" A magical Spear
Rank 1: Key Knowledge - find out its name = unlocks power
Rank 2: Key Knowledge - find out where it was forged = unlocks power
Rank 3: Key Knowledge - find out who forged the axe = unlocks power

Yes, though most items have the Key Knowledges spaced out every other Rank, so you would see:

Rank 1: Name.
Rank 3: Where it was forged.
Rank 5: Who forged it.

With the even ranks as "free ups" where you can weave the next thread without needing to learn anything new.

Bob the Archer
His quiver is a Major Pattern Item (so Rank 9/Abilities 3)
Key Knowledge - find out Bob's name = increase a max of 3 abilities to a max of +9?

The Key Knowledge for a pattern item isn't (usually) the Name of the associated True Pattern, but the reason the item is a pattern item.

So, in your example, the key knowledge associated with the quiver would be "Why is his quiver important? What significant event in his life was it involved with so that a little bit of his magic 'rubbed off' on it to create that association?"

(Slimcreeper's example in the prior post is the sort of thing I'm talking about.)

Page 229: "By researching the history and activities of a True Pattern, it is possible to obtain its Research Knowledges."

Page 229: "Once a character knows one or more Key Knowledges of a True Pattern, he can weave a thread to the True Pattern."

Does the answer to a Key Knowledge unlock all of a pattern item's potential? I ask because the above sentences mentions research Knowledges (plural).

It depends.

For thread items, no (because they have multiple knowledge ranks).
For pattern items, yes (because a pattern item is only associated with one key knowledge).

For example, if I learn the key knowledge of a major pattern item, do I have to spend LP and weave threads for each +1 improvement and do I have to do this separately for each of the 3 abilities I can increase or are all 3 abilities improved at the same time?

I think if I had an example of a pattern item, say, major (rank 9/abilities 3), it would wrap this up.

I'm at my day gig and don't have a book handy to check, so I'll have to get back to you on whether buying the rank gets you the bonus to all 3 abilities at once, or whether you need to buy each separately. (I think it's the latter, because that's how group pattern threads work, but I'm not 100% sure.)

As for an example... pattern items don't have defined powers the way thread items do. When you weave the thread, you choose what the bonus applies to. You can choose any Defense Rating, talent rank, or Mystic Armor. One person might choose Mystic Defense, while another might choose Melee Weapons.

One other thing to keep in mind about pattern items: the bonus only applies when interacting with the target. If you've woven a thread to Darklord's pattern item to give a bonus to your Spellcasting, that bonus only applies when using Spellcasting on Darklord. The bonus wouldn't apply when casting spells against other targets.

[Jaracove]

Thanks very much for this Mataxes, and everyone.

Earthdawn magic system is a little involved but it's the best I've come across.

I'd appreciate it if you could get back to me confirming whether buying the rank gets you the bonus to all 3 abilities at once, or whether you need to buy each separately. I think that'll be everything for me then

Thanks again, all!

[RazanMG]

PG p.230
"A single Pattern Item can have only one thread tied to it."

p.231
"A Minor Pattern Item can only increase
one ability. A Major Pattern Item can increase up to three abilities. A thread woven to a
Core Pattern Item can increase up to five abilities. When increasing multiple abilities,
all attached abilities are increased by the thread’s Rank."

[Mataxes]

I just got home from the day gig and looked it up. -- and Razan beat me to the punch.

So my earlier statement was wrong. For major and core items, you pay once and get the benefit to each of three (or five) things at once.

(I was correctly describing group true patterns, which I am a lot more familiar with off the top of my head -- but they have multiple threads, which is part of the reason why they work the way they do.)

[Jaracove]

Ok so I have Thread Weaving at +4 and I successfully weave one thread to a Major Pattern Item.

I choose to increase my Physical Defence, Mystic Armour, and Durability, and all of them get increased by 4 points - at the same time?

[PiXeL01]

You get a bonus to those abilities equal to the Rank of the Thread tied to the item, not your talent rank.

[Jaracove]

You get a bonus to those abilities equal to the Rank of the Thread tied to the item, not your talent rank.

What specifically is this "thread tied to the item"?

Page 230-231
"Kira weaves a Rank 2 thread... This thread increases her Melee Weapons talent by 2 Ranks when interacting with Larren...."

"Rensil weaves a Rank 3 thread...increasing the rating +3 whenever he is interacting with the enemy magician..."

"When increasing multiple abilities, all attached abilities are increased by the thread’s Rank"

I ask because the first two examples both give a bonus equal to the character's Thread Weaving talent.

Or are you saying if I have Thread Weaving +3 and successfully weave a thread to a Major Pattern Item with 8 Ranks, I get +8?

[PiXeL01]

As you quote the Thread's Rank, not your Thread Weaving talent rank.

You find an item, discover usually via Research its key knowledge, pay the legend points equal to 100 for Rank 1 (price is equal to Novice grade talents) and then roll a Thread Weaving check of a difficulty of 8.
If you succeed that test you have weaved a Rank 1 Thread to the item and all those abilities affected by the Thread receive a +1 bonus.

Next you want to upgrade your Thread, so you meditate and pay 200 legend points and attempt another test, this time you'll need to roll 9.

You have buy each step and pass a test for each step.

The bonuses are not tied to the Thread Weaving talent except to determine limitations ( you face only have a number of active threads equal to your talent rank and none of these threads can exceed your talent's rank either - so if your character have a Thread Weaving Rank of 4, you can have four active threads each maximum at a rank of 4.
It gets confusing because the words "Thread" and "rank" are used so often

[Jaracove]

Thank you for this

Just so I know I have this correct, can someone check this for me please (I've reworded it slightly and added some details):

You have Thread Weaving at +4 and you successfully weave one thread to a Major Pattern Item.

You find an item, and discover its key knowledge, pay 100 LP for Rank 1 (price is equal to Novice grade talents) and then roll a Thread Weaving check of a difficulty of 8 (see page 225).

You succeed, and so you have weaved a Rank 1 Thread to the item and 3 abilities affected by the Thread receive a +1 bonus.

Next you want to upgrade your Thread, so you meditate and pay 200 legend points and attempt another test, this time you'll need to roll 9. Up to 3 abilities affected by the Thread receive a +2 bonus.

The bonuses are not tied to the Thread Weaving talent, except to determine limitations, meaning, you can only have a number of active threads equal to your talent rank and none of these threads can exceed your talent's rank either. So if your character has a Thread Weaving Rank of 4, you can have four active threads each maximum at a rank of 4.

Because the pattern item is a Major Pattern Item, you can only increase up to 3 abilities up to a maximum of Rank 9 (i.e. a +9 bonus) and you have to increase these bonuses one at a time.

Is that it?