Resist Pain as Skill

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Belenus
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Resist Pain as Skill

Post by Belenus » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:51 am

Resist Pain p.64 wrote: Step: Rank Action: NA
Strain: 0 Skill Use: Yes (Warden)
The adept is more resistant to the effects of injury and other sources of pain. Any Wound penalties they suffer are reduced by their Resist Pain rank. For example, an adept with Resist Pain at rank 1 reduces the -2 penalty from two Wounds to a -1 penalty. The adept also adds their Resist Pain rank as a bonus to any Action tests made to ignore intense pain, which by itself causes no damage, but incapacitates the target, such as the effects of the Pain spell.
I just read the discussion about Alchemy as "New Enchanting Knack" and was surprised by Pandas argumentation: "As it is, it may not be worth investing in alchemy. It should be a choice. With such a knack, it's a requirement. Any group will be insane not to. It provides an incredibly powerful ability (and currently the only reason to learn the skill at all) for a pittance. Whatever the Legend Point cost, it's a pittance."

Because I'd say the same about this talent being a skill:
I don't see enhancing this talent to rank 9+-. Normally you don't suffer more than 3 wounds in combat / until the next opportunity to heal yourself / before you die. And even if you have a 4th or 5th wound, -1/2 isn't such a big hindrance.
So why should I sacrifice a Warden or even Master Talent Option for it, when I can just learn it as a skill? And even so the costs are a bit higher, I can even start learning it as a Journeyman Adept and have it at around Rank 3 in circle 6.
The benefits are extreme, the costs ignorable. You could even save up more silver, because you don't need a healing potion for each wound. Have 1 or 2 for an emergency and just get by with Booster Potions, healing your Wounds one after another through sleep or visit the next Garlen Temple.
Any player would be insane not to learn it.

Also it quite reduces the benefit of being a Blood Elve having Pain Resistance. Strictly this is the only racial ability being available as a skill.

I'd wish for an errata removing this talent as skill. Otherwise I guess I'll just houserule it this way. But before that, I'd also like to hear your opinions on this topic.

ragbasti
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Re: Resist Pain as Skill

Post by ragbasti » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:58 pm

Learning a skill requires finding a trainer. Learning a Warden Tier Skill should never be something that can be easily achieved, the same goes for finding a trainer.

Every table decides for themselves if they want to have people accessing this skill before warden tier. Personally, I wouldn't.
And by the time people get to that point, they've earned the right to get this and save a talent slot.

Belenus
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Re: Resist Pain as Skill

Post by Belenus » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:11 pm

Skills aren't Talents. You don't have to follow the teachers opinion on how you should behave in your Disziplin.
As long as you don't run around, killing innocent people I can't see a reason, why a namegiver shouldn't teach you this skill.
Espacialy because you don't even have to be an adept for learning it. I'd even guess each high ranked guard in a bigger town has this skill.
But sure, you could make this harder for the players this way. The whole "you have to find xy first"-argumentation works for nearly everything in Earthdawn.

But this wasn't my point in this discussion at all and is just one of the many reasons, why it shouldn't be a skill.
The main question is probably: Why would anybody even learn the talent, as long as it exists as a skill? Just to fight Wingflayer?

Sharkforce
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Re: Resist Pain as Skill

Post by Sharkforce » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:14 pm

much of the time, 2-3 ranks will be enough.

but then you fight a nethermancer working together with a changeling and pain is causing 3 wound penalties and the changeling is turning your skull into a decorative vase and suddenly, you find yourself thinking "it sure would be nice to have more ranks of resist pain" (maybe that's just your brain being squeezed into odd shapes, though).

it's also more important if you're not getting a lot of time in between fights to heal up. if you have 2 fights where you have the ability to heal damage but not wounds in between them, the second fight could be almost like you don't have any ranks of resist pain at all.

plus, some disciplines and abilities cost wounds to get them... sky raiders get an ability to use fire blood as a simple action at the cost of taking a wound, nethermancers can heal some damage at the cost of causing a wound, etc.

but again, I do have to agree... 2-3 ranks as a skill can be a very beneficial thing to have.

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etherial
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Re: Resist Pain as Skill

Post by etherial » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:17 pm

I agree that Resist Pain shouldn't be available as a Skill, but I must point out that my Warden Nethermancer has 11 Talents at Rank 3 or less (12 if you include the Talent I only get from a Thread Item). So the idea of buying a Warden Talent and not raising it to 9 is kind of a red herring.

Clawshaper
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Re: Resist Pain as Skill

Post by Clawshaper » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:38 am

I would keep it. It's for hardened non-adepts and it would logically take a lot of time suffering Wounds to get the hang of it. From a mechanical perspective, it's negating a typically small penalty, which is nothing so damaging to the setting or pastiche of magic. There are also actual people who simply just cannot feel pain, heat, cold, etc., though that's something that ED never did well.

Belenus
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Re: Resist Pain as Skill

Post by Belenus » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:07 pm

etherial wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:17 pm
I agree that Resist Pain shouldn't be available as a Skill, but I must point out that my Warden Nethermancer has 11 Talents at Rank 3 or less (12 if you include the Talent I only get from a Thread Item). So the idea of buying a Warden Talent and not raising it to 9 is kind of a red herring.
11 Talents? At Circle 11 I guess? I can understand some Talents not being enhanced, I do so myself, but you just enhanced what was necessary for the next circle? There are so many great Talents a Nethermancer has and which only work well will a higher Rank, I'm quite shocked :shock:

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etherial
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Re: Resist Pain as Skill

Post by etherial » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:24 pm

Belenus wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:07 pm
etherial wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:17 pm
I agree that Resist Pain shouldn't be available as a Skill, but I must point out that my Warden Nethermancer has 11 Talents at Rank 3 or less (12 if you include the Talent I only get from a Thread Item). So the idea of buying a Warden Talent and not raising it to 9 is kind of a red herring.
11 Talents? At Circle 11 I guess? I can understand some Talents not being enhanced, I do so myself, but you just enhanced what was necessary for the next circle? There are so many great Talents a Nethermancer has and which only work well will a higher Rank, I'm quite shocked :shock:
10th Circle with a Mystic Path.

Sharkforce
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Re: Resist Pain as Skill

Post by Sharkforce » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:24 am

I will say that resist pain as a skill is extremely nice on magicians, who otherwise typically wouldn't get it (I mean, there's always the possibility of a path or something giving access, but those don't always fit a character concept).

sigfriedmcwild
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Re: Resist Pain as Skill

Post by sigfriedmcwild » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:46 pm

I am in the camp that resist pain as a talent is rarely worth the opportunity cost (you could get a different option) and the wait.

The frontline disciplines that get access to it often have enough other tricks to make wounds unlikely that getting more than 2 or 3 ranks is not worth it (even skyraiders only really pile on wounds at circle 15). Horror powers and nethermancers may shift that calculus, but it hasn't been a frequent enough issue in my experience.

The biggest advantage of getting the skill though is that it's accessible much earlier on, and being able to ignore 1 or 2 wounds at circle 5 is a huge quality of life improvement for most characters and arguably where Resist Pain is most useful for front liners. By warden access to talents like Temper Flesh and Unflinching Fortitude make wounds much less of a concern, and you have have the resources to just throw healing potions at the problem.
Last edited by sigfriedmcwild on Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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