Sharper

Discussion on playing Earthdawn. Experiences, stories, and questions related to being a player.
ragbasti
Posts:118
Joined:Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:09 pm
Re: Sharper

Post by ragbasti » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:13 pm

I think Conceal Object is fine in Novice Tier, in fact, Surprise Strike will see little use without it. So I would absolutely keep it there.
Quickblade is however too strong, no matter if you add smaller restrictions like no ini penalty or not.

I think a good alternative could be this: If the opponent's ini is no more than 1 success higher than the Sharpers, they may spend 1 strain per Point difference to go before them.
It keeps the usefulness, is a lot less extreme and is a lot more in line with other journeyman ability.

Slimcreeper
Posts:1061
Joined:Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by Slimcreeper » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:33 am

Did you see the most recent changes? I made quickblade a talent and gave them a different ability. Quickblade needs a test now, it's basically a conditional Initiative booster.

Since Surprise Strike also helps against knocked down and flanked opponents, it's still pretty useful.

Making disciplines is hard

ChrisDDickey
Posts:1011
Joined:Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:02 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by ChrisDDickey » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:47 am

Making the Quickblade test a test against the attackers Init is a huge improvement.
Slimcreeper wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:28 pm
I should clarify that the opponent is not committed to a close combat attack. They could switch to a ranged attack, and if they haven't used their move they could move up. It can only be used once per round. I would like to see some playtesting. I know compared to the Elementalist's stupid ability it's pretty powerful.
Except that some builds are kind of commited to close combat attacks only by their very build. IE: against a warrior, even if he has the missile weapons talent, the warrior is loosing about 80% of his abilities by making a missile weapons attack instead of a melee attack. If he did not bother to take missile weapons, he is totally useless.

I could make an argument that the situation is not just for one round as you say (as I think you will see if you playtest it), but will just say that in my opinion allowing an opponent to take their movement action between their attackers movement action and his attack is inherently broken. At the very, very, very least I would put in a phrase that the person who's attack is interrupted still gets to use any remaining movement left over from their move action. I think a more fair thing would be to let them move to any place that they could have reached from their original starting place. The idea is that if the Sharper is assumed to be going at the same time as the Attacker, the Attacker gets to modify his movements to account for what the Sharper is doing.

I predict that a playtest would find that as written in a 4 on 4 fight, the opposing side can deal with the sharper. In a one on one duel, the melee classes simply can't, especially if movement rates make kiting an option.

Yep, writing Disciplines is Hard!
So now, Just another Face and One with the People are kind of too similar, and One with the People is not really better than Just another Face. For one thing One with the People has a max of one hour, but Just another Face has no time limit. I mean yes, One with the People has a lower target number and removes a few other restrictions, but it just strikes me as a variant of the same thing rather than a new and exciting ability.

I kind of agree with the comment above that Contortionist might be better off as a Knack of Acrobatics rather than it's own separate TO. I dislike statements of the form "no matter what, this always fails/succeeds" and would get rid of the statement that non-magical bindings simply fail, the free action contortionist test seems adequate to cover that situation in a fair manner.
As a side note, wouldn't it be hilarious for the whole party to be knocked off a ledge into a safety net, except for the contortionist, whom the net fails to impede from falling to his death?

Mob Movement I also don't really think deserves it's own Talent. I would make it a Knack of Acrobatic Defense or maybe Stealthy Stride, or both. I would also take out the part where they get to exceed their Movement Rate, which seems both unreasonable and weird.

Just to double-check, Your intention is that unarmed, shield bash and claw attacks can not be quickbladed?
Is it half-magic Warrior or Swordmaster test to know that if you just attack with your dagger you can't be quickbladed?

Looks like the warriors best bet is to open up with a swift kick, shield bash, or dagger attack to knock down. After you knock them down, then declare an attack with a big weapon. I still say having another players turn partway though an NPC's turn, or an NPC's turn halfway though a PC's turn is going to be a nightmare to GM.

Slimcreeper
Posts:1061
Joined:Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by Slimcreeper » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:03 pm

Thank you everyone for your input! You guys are awesome.

The Quickblade ability only works against larger weapons. I imagine them parrying it to the side, popping the attacker, and then darting away. I did add that the opponent could move again using the Splitting Movement option, but maybe that's just fiddly? Anyway, a warrior would have a couple options, like shield bash or switching to a dagger. I'd say that the first time the Quickblade was used, a warrior or swordmaster would at the very least get a half-magic test to realize what was going on, though I don't think that needs to be in the rules. I'm also of the mind these days that anyone who doesn't have a ranged attack in a world with windlings gets what's coming to them :D

It does make the Sharper tough to pin down and kill, one on one. I think their relatively low damage output means they'd have a hard time killing a warrior (for example) in a duel as well. The Sharper would be more interested in pulling the warrior out of position than killing them, though.

I made some changes to Contortionist based on your comments. I think it would see enough use to warrant being its own ability. Knacks shouldn't really contain the core flavors of a discipline, IMO. You all may be right about Mob Movement. Might be better as an Illusionist spell ... I'll have to think of a new one.

Slimcreeper
Posts:1061
Joined:Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by Slimcreeper » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:33 pm

Okay, now I think I'm done!

Only thing would be to playtest quickblade and see if it is too complicated. If so, it could be modified just to let the Sharper take either their move or standard action instead of both.

Post Reply