Question about Additional Target

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JetBlackJoe
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Joined:Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:01 pm
Question about Additional Target

Post by JetBlackJoe » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:42 pm

While perusing the Spell Magic chapter of the Player's Guide and looking for awesome things to do with my Wizard when his legend increases, I stumbled upon Dislodge Spell at page 359. This spell allows the caster to weave an extra thread for the Additional Target (+1) effect, and that got me wondering. Since this spell effectively wipes clean one of the enemy magician's Spell Matrices, it would seem like a logical design choice to allow an extra thread to wipe an additional Spell Matrix - but then I started wondering whether that was a correct interpretation, since I had been assuming with every other spell in the book, that the Additional Target (+1) extra thread meant casting your spell at someone else at the same time.

Looking for an answer, I flipped the book to page 256 and read the Additional Threads rule and found no answer. It is actually never explained what the additional target is allowed to be or how to choose it (I checked the errata too - no answer there either).

If Morgan or Josh could comment on the designers' intention behind the rule, that would be great - otherwise we might reach community consensus in this thread. I suppose everyone can agree that the Additional Target (+1) allows you to cast a spell at two foes instead of one.
  • Does anyone allow the same target to be chosen more than once?
  • How would you interpret the Additional Target (+1) of Dislodge Spell?
"Mind over Body. Body over Mind."
- Verron Vittraxi, Wizard Extraordinaire

Slimcreeper
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Re: Question about Additional Target

Post by Slimcreeper » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:53 pm

I would expect it means multiple spellcasters, not multiple matrices. I don't think wiping 2 matrices instead would be overpowering, though.

Bonhumm
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Re: Question about Additional Target

Post by Bonhumm » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:12 pm

While I would agree that the wording makes it clear that the 'Target' is the caster, not the matrix, I would personally think that the intent was to allow both targeting more matrices from the same target or a matrix from someone else.

I don't see anything OP in all this. Especially considering that, for example, wiping 3 spell matrices would take a total of 4 rounds (if only 1 thread is successful per round) while reattuning-on-the-fly those same 3 matrices would take 3 rounds.

JetBlackJoe
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Joined:Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:01 pm

Re: Question about Additional Target

Post by JetBlackJoe » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:30 pm

Slimcreeper wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:53 pm
I would expect it means multiple spellcasters, not multiple matrices. I don't think wiping 2 matrices instead would be overpowering, though.
Bonhumm wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:12 pm
While I would agree that the wording makes it clear that the 'Target' is the caster, not the matrix, I would personally think that the intent was to allow both targeting more matrices from the same target or a matrix from someone else.

I don't see anything OP in all this. Especially considering that, for example, wiping 3 spell matrices would take a total of 4 rounds (if only 1 thread is successful per round) while reattuning-on-the-fly those same 3 matrices would take 3 rounds.
I suppose this is the essence of my question - whether multiple magicians and Spell Matrices is the intent. I feel like the intent is multiple Spell Matrices, but precedent cases from other spells implies multiple magicians. I just feel like facing down multiple magicians at the same time is an extremely corner-case scenario that would probably never occur in most games, whereas wiping several of your opponent's Spell Matrices at once in a magician vs. magician spell duel would be awesome though.

I do not feel like this is in any way overpowered either (in fact, I highly doubt my own Wizard will ever even learn this spell, unless the campaign steers him toward a one-vs-one spellcasting duel at some point).

Since the rules never actually explain what a target is, how do you guys interpret it? Strictly as an entity (Name-giver/creature/horror etc) or more loosely? Where does it say that an additional target can't mean selecting the same target an additional time (I probably wouldn't allow this as a GM myself, I'm mostly asking rhetorically).
"Mind over Body. Body over Mind."
- Verron Vittraxi, Wizard Extraordinaire

ragbasti
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Re: Question about Additional Target

Post by ragbasti » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:44 pm

If you roll against the SD of the target who has the matrix -> additional target is another namegiver
If you roll against the SD of the Matrix -> another matrix can be targeted

Target is defined by what you roll against.

Regardless:
Either way, the spell is fine and I would allow it to do both.

JetBlackJoe
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Joined:Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:01 pm

Re: Question about Additional Target

Post by JetBlackJoe » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:02 pm

ragbasti wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:44 pm
If you roll against the SD of the target who has the matrix -> additional target is another namegiver
If you roll against the SD of the Matrix -> another matrix can be targeted
What is the Mystic Defense of a Spell Matrix?
"Mind over Body. Body over Mind."
- Verron Vittraxi, Wizard Extraordinaire

Panda
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Re: Question about Additional Target

Post by Panda » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:18 pm

Greetings,

It is both.

The Mystic Defense is the character's Mystic Defense. Differing Mystic Defenses on the same character (for example, affecting their equipment) was more cumbersome than useful, particularly when high Mystic Defense already provides protection to those around for area spells and similar.

JetBlackJoe
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Joined:Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:01 pm

Re: Question about Additional Target

Post by JetBlackJoe » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:47 pm

Panda wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:18 pm
Greetings,

It is both.

The Mystic Defense is the character's Mystic Defense. Differing Mystic Defenses on the same character (for example, affecting their equipment) was more cumbersome than useful, particularly when high Mystic Defense already provides protection to those around for area spells and similar.
I supposed as much. Is the Additional Target (+1) of Dislodge Spell intended to affect an additional Spell Matrix or an additional magician?

If either the Spell Matrix or both is the correct or accepted choice, does that then mean that, generally speaking, you can choose the same target more than once for other spells?
"Mind over Body. Body over Mind."
- Verron Vittraxi, Wizard Extraordinaire

Panda
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Re: Question about Additional Target

Post by Panda » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:57 pm

Generally speaking, no, since this is heading into using additional targets to cast a damaging spell on someone twice territory and that's not going to happen. If that causes dissonance, then it has to target different characters.

JetBlackJoe
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Joined:Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:01 pm

Re: Question about Additional Target

Post by JetBlackJoe » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:56 am

Thank you for your answer. All is well then :)
"Mind over Body. Body over Mind."
- Verron Vittraxi, Wizard Extraordinaire

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