Multiple disciplines and karma rituals

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Multiple disciplines and karma rituals

Post by Moonwolf » Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:26 pm

Given that paths modify the followers karma ritual in specific ways, is there any indication of what happens to someone with more than one discipline. Do you merge the intent of both? Just do one? It's left out of the expanding your legend part.

As an other thought, does the mastery karma improvement specifically take it to step 5, or is it +1 step and giving the example. Not that my players are anywhere near that yet.

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Re: Multiple disciplines and karma rituals

Post by Belenus » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:46 pm

I recall reading somewhere, that you somehow "merge" the two karma rituals.
Or to be more correct: You must not merge the existing one with the new one, but you also can invent a completely new one fitting both / all disciplines.

Companion p. 21: "At Thirteenth Circle, an adept’s Karma Die increases by one Step (from a d6 to a d8)." But why does it even matter?

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Re: Multiple disciplines and karma rituals

Post by Sharkforce » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:42 am

my 3rd(?) edition books require multi-discipline adepts to perform separate karma rituals, and track their karma separately for each discipline (note: you still only get one ritual per day, and it only refills one discipline. and of course, you paid for each point of karma back then in legend points). it also had optional rules requiring the purchasing of separate karma ritual talents and being unable to spend karma from one discipline on talents from the other. they also talk about how you almost have to change your entire perspective between your disciplines to effectively use them.

as far as 4th edition is concerned, i suspect the goal would have been to simplify this. but at least in earlier editions, it appears that the intent was that you do your karma rituals separately for each discipline, and potentially that you track and use karma for each discipline separately.

in contrast, here's what i've got in my 4th edition book on karma rituals (player's guide page 83)

"Each Discipline includes a sample ritual that allows characters of that Discipline
to regain Karma Points. The player need not make any tests to perform the Karma
Ritual; it is always successful. Your character may perform his Karma Ritual once each
day, and the ritual takes about half an hour to perform. After he performs his Karma
Ritual, all of his Karma Points are restored. A character’s maximum Karma is determined
by his highest Discipline Circle, multiplied by the Karma Modifier for his race.
For example, a Third Circle human adept has 15 maximum Karma Points.

While there are many similarities between the rituals practiced by adepts of the
same Discipline, every Karma Ritual is unique. Individuals will adapt their ritual to
fit their personal vision for the Discipline. Players are encouraged to create unique
Karma Rituals for their characters."

and (page 459, advancing in a new discipline - karma)

If multiple Disciplines grant the ability to spend Karma on a particular kind of
test, the character may only spend one Karma Point using that ability. For example,
a Fifth Circle Air Sailor who is also a Third Circle Swordmaster may only spend one
point using the ability to spend Karma on Interaction tests. Unless a rule description
specifically says otherwise, this applies to any talents or duplicate abilities."

so yeah, much more simplified. one pool for all disciplines, based on the highest discipline. in this spirit, i'd say you could likely perform either karma ritual and receive the same benefit, and i would go even further and suggest that your ritual (being slightly different from others) is likely have *some* reflection of your other disciplines in them. with the only restriction being that you don't get to double-dip on spending karma.

hope that helps :)

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Re: Multiple disciplines and karma rituals

Post by Kosmit » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:05 pm

Actually if you hve two disciplines, you get two pools based on your circles in those.

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Re: Multiple disciplines and karma rituals

Post by Panda » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:27 pm


For 4E (whcih I assume the original poster is using since Paths are referenced), Sharkforce is correct on all accounts.

Your Karma Ritual is your Karma Ritual and does not need to follow the examples, just as the Karma Rituals listed for a Path are examples of how the adept may alter their ritual based on their new association. The same applies to multiple Disciplines. Since this is all characterization, there's no requirement for adepts to change anything, though I personally find it appropriate for a Karma Ritual to express an adept's perspective on their Discipline(s), which means their ritual may evolve over time.

Each adept has only one Karma pool (barring some specific other abilities, such as thread items and the like), regardless of their Disciplines, Paths, etc. As noted, this is much simpler and with free Karma, multiple pools could lead to significant abuse, in addition to having all Disicpline benefits (of which Maximum Karma is one) rely only on the highest. The benefit of a higher Karma modifier for races with less abilities would be minimized by simply taking another Discipline and creating a new pool to draw from. This all played into the goal of making one v. multiple Disciplines attractive for different reasons; one Discipline if you focus and reach more powerful abilities, or multiple to become more versatile.

Whether it directly increases to D8 or by +1 Step is technically irrelevant in this case as all other abilities that affect Karma Step indicate a bonus and achieving Master in multiple Disciplines does not further increase their Karma Step (since only the highest benefit applies). The specific terminology was used in an attept to make that clear.

Hopefully this is helpful.

Best regards,


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