[ED3] Re-sizing magical items

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ErianRavel
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[ED3] Re-sizing magical items

Post by ErianRavel » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:57 pm

I've heard from my DM that in 1st Edition, items would re-size to wearer once a thread had been woven to them. Does that also happen in 3e? I'm not being able to find it.
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Bonhumm
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Re: [ED3] Re-sizing magical items

Post by Bonhumm » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:07 pm

I don't remember anything about items changing sizes like that. Although the amount of Thread Items I had in all my time playing first edition was....zero. So I had not read much about the mechanics then.

Taking a quick look into the 1st edition corebook I cannot find anything related to that either.

The only thing that comes to my head was the sword Purifier that could be wielded by anyone no matter their STR. This would not mean that the sword would resize itself but rather that a windling could have used that full-sized broadsword.

This could easily be turned into a house-rule (would solve a lot of issues) with maybe some exceptions concerning items which 'legends' is too intrinsically linked to a race in particular.

ChrisDDickey
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Re: [ED3] Re-sizing magical items

Post by ChrisDDickey » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:02 am

I played a windling in 1st edition, and dimly recall that sizing was an issue. On the other hand, I never actually attached a thread to anything I felt my windling could not constantly lug around, so maybe they would have resized if I had attached the thread.
It is also possible that the rule was that clothing resized, but weapons and armor might not? Or it might just have been a house rule that he mistook for an official one.

Belenus
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Re: [ED3] Re-sizing magical items

Post by Belenus » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:00 am

I don't know if it was a specific rule in 1st Edition, only started with the 2nd.
But from there on there were just single items with an effect like that, most namend items don't have this ability.

Slimcreeper
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Re: [ED3] Re-sizing magical items

Post by Slimcreeper » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:13 am

Don’t know that I love the idea of a threaded windling dagger resizing to suit an obsidiman.

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Mataxes
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Re: [ED3] Re-sizing magical items

Post by Mataxes » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:26 pm

I don't recall that it was something specifically addressed in earlier editions, but we did consider it for ED4. On page 204 of the GM Guide, one of the effects available for all thread ranks:
A special effect affecting the item’s usability, visual appearance, or other properties not directly related to another effect option (a magically collapsible quarterstaff, an anvil weighing only 3 pounds, a piece of clothing perfectly fitting any wearer). Inconsequential abilities may be part of another effect.
I would consider resizing clothing, armor, or the like to be inconsequential enough to include as part of the normal effects for an item at rank 1. But I would not allow this for weapons.

Armor provides the same defensive protections regardless of the character's size -- hardened leather provides 5 physical armor whether it's sized for a troll or a windling. Bonuses to defenses, armor ratings, talents, or spell-like effects also don't scale with size.

Weapons, on the other hand, do scale with size -- a windling-sized two-handed sword is a Size 2 weapon, and it's base damage step is limited as a result. Allowing a weapon to resize for a wielder but keep its damage is a more significant effect, and could be built into an item, but I would make it a specific power rather than an incidental effect.
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ErianRavel
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Re: [ED3] Re-sizing magical items

Post by ErianRavel » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:14 pm

No official answer yet. I do agree that armors and clothing should be able to be resized, but my DM is a jerk (he hates windlings so nothing we find is Windling-sized, and the lack of items in the books doesn't help either).

ChrisDDickey
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Re: [ED3] Re-sizing magical items

Post by ChrisDDickey » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:55 pm

ErianRavel wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:14 pm
No official answer yet...
Actually you should probably take Mataxes' answer above as the official answer (at least for 4th edition, your OP was about 3rd edition but I don't think there are any 3rd edition devs hanging out here, but I think that Mataxes' answer sounds reasonable for all editions).

If I might more explicitly point out options and add some commentary.
  • A GM may (if they choose) make the resizing of an item one of the rank powers. If he is planning on doing that, it probably ought to be the rank 1 power, since it resizing might be a very major factor in the question of whether a character will tie a thread to it. IE: allowing a human sized suit of armor to resize to fit a Troll or Windling should not be a rank 2 power, since no troll or windling is going to tie the rank one thread UNLESS it says that it will resize to fit them.
  • A GM may (if they choose) make resizing a thread item an "inconsequential" power that is PART or ADDED to some other rank one power. A person who has the knowledge's to attach the first thread will know all of the rank one power, and will thus know whether it will resize or not.
  • A GM may (if he chooses) make it an "inconsequential" power or a stand-alone power that an item will resize to fit within a certain range, such as "all humans" or "all human males", or "all females of the medium sized races" or "to any character" or any other specification the GM chooses. Gms can (if they choose) add text to this effect to any thread item in any of the books.
  • A GM does not have to give any specific item this power if he does not want to. However I would think that if he does not give any flavor of resizing ability at all (IE: this item resized to fit all humans), then almost all armors would be almost unusable until fitted by a weaponsmith and much clothing or boots would be unusable until fitted by a tailor or cobbler. I mean if the GM says that the boots do not fit a windling, fine, but how likely is it that it is going to fit the specific human, dwarf, or orc in the party ether? OK, look at your character sheets, can anybody use size 5 extra wide boots? No? Some degree of magical resizing just makes the game manageable. If the description of the item says that it is "human sized" then many players and gms assume that it magically resizes to fit all humans. If it says it is "medium sized", then many players and gms assume it magically resizes to fit all members of all medium sized races. But honestly, it is totally up to the gm how extensively the item resizes to adapt to other races.
  • Modules will sometimes state or strongly imply that thread items are sized for a certain race. Armor that is introduced as being worn by a dwarf is obviously sized for a dwarf or capable of resizing for a dwarf. But while the Generic descriptions of thread items in the GM book rarely specifically says things are sized for windlings, but it also almost never says things are not. Just about any item in the GM book that is not a weapon with a specific size listed can be specifically sized to any race. Seven League striders are described as being "tall, at least to the knees", There is absolutely no reason that any particular pair might not be a windlings knees, or a Trolls knees. Likewise an Orecalcum Shield might be specifically sized to a windling. Or really any non-unique item, and many unique items could be sized, or have the ability to resize to fit just about any race. If the published item description does not specifically say that it does or does not resize, and what it's resizing limits are, the GM can easily and freely add such clarifying text.
Mataxis says (and I agree) that his personal opinion is that adding resizing as an "inconsequential"power is appropriate for many items.
I would also say that while many (or even most) clothing or armor items will have some version of this power, it might not be that all items will have it to an extent that it will adjust to all character races. it is totally up to the GM.

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Re: [ED3] Re-sizing magical items

Post by Belenus » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:05 am

Why do you need the re-sizing ability?
Just talk to the gm that he should consider to alter some of the magic items to windling size himself and have you find it already that way.

+ If re-sizing would be an thread one abilty, I would never take a human sized armor and try on good luck, if it has the resizing ability after I wove a thread to it. Neither would the group give this sword to somebody possibly not fit to wield it.

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