Sharper

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Slimcreeper
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 pm

Sharper

Post by Slimcreeper » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:20 pm

This is a Discipline I worked up as a combination of Swordmaster and Thief that focuses on daggers and other small weapons. I've updated it some based on feedback from the Discord Channel.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13aW ... sp=sharing

*Edit

Taken up to 15th Circle, for some reason ;)

*Edit edit

Made some changes based on Chris's observations. I turned the 5th Circle Ability into a talent, a sort of after-the-fact initiative booster, and gave them a new ability to be conveniently forgotten.
Last edited by Slimcreeper on Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

JetBlackJoe
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:01 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by JetBlackJoe » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:48 pm

Great work, and I like the overall idea. Making the Daggers talent work both for throwing and close combat is a nice idea to gently force the theme without just being worse than Melee Weapons.
Slimcreeper wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:20 pm
Edit: Should I make Call Missile a Free Talent also? That might actually make them the long-sought Throwing Weapons Discipline.
Morgan made an attempt at this too on his blog. Did you see the Shadow Discipline he posted there? It might inspire you as well.
Slimcreeper wrote:Acrobatics
Step: Dex + Rank Action: Simple (See Text)
Strain: 0 Skill Use: Yes
The adept is skilled at flipping, tumbling, and balancing. Acrobatics can be used for any Dex-based test to keep from falling. Furthermore, if the adept does fall, the reduce the damage taken by the adept’s rank in Acrobatics.
Acrobatics also enhanced the Great Leap talent or skill. If at the end of a Great Leap there is anything the adept can grab or jump off of, including rigging or tree branches, the adept may make an Acrobatics test to keep moving. The target number is based on the Climbing Difficulty Table, p. 167 in the GMG.If this test fails, the adept falls prone at the end of the Great Leap. If it ended on something small, like a flagpole or the top of a troll’s head, then the adept falls to the ground, potentially taking falling damage. On one success, the adept uses a standard action to leap even further. The length of the second jump is figured the same way as Great Leap. The maximum distance is equal to the Acrobatics test or the character’s Movement Rate, whichever is less. On two or more successes, the Acrobatics test is a Simple Action, allowing the adept to act as normally when landing.
If used to enhance the Great Leap Skill, the length of the jump is in feet; if used to enhance the Great Leap Talent, the length is measured in yards. Acrobatics cannot be used in combination with Sprint.
Acrobatics may also be used as a performance-based artisan skill.
Skill Use: The length of a second jump is always measured in feet, not yards. It is always a standard action when used in this way.
Instead of the Great Leap stuff, how about keeping the balance, artisan/performance and falling damage stuff and then adding it as a bonus to Jump Up tests? That would greatly simplify the rule-writing while still keeping it useful.
"Mind over Body. Body over Mind."
- Verron Vittraxi, Wizard Extraordinaire

Slimcreeper
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by Slimcreeper » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:31 pm

The Shadow is a pretty interesting idea! I'd forgotten about that. Really specialized, though.

I like the idea of using acrobatics on Jump Up, especially since I couldn't get a place to put in Wound Balance. Much simpler! I did switch the Speak Language and Call Missile options. So if the adept has a thread dagger, they don't have to worry about throwing it.

JetBlackJoe
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:01 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by JetBlackJoe » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:55 pm

Slimcreeper wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:31 pm
So if the adept has a thread dagger, they don't have to worry about throwing it.
There’s always the “Returning” Talent knack, Companion p. 114. You could just make that available for Daggers as well. Rank 4 isn’t hard to come by if you have a special knife.

Other considerations:
  • The Circle 3 Karma ability doesn’t do anything unless I choose the “correct” Talent Options to go with it. If I have to choose something, it’s not really an option. If you want to keep it, Avoid Blow (or any other active defense Talent) needs to be a Discipline Talent by Circle 3.
  • To keep it in line with other Disciplines, the Sharper needs a Circle 5 Karma ability.
Love the idea. I’ve already made an NPC in my mind :)
"Mind over Body. Body over Mind."
- Verron Vittraxi, Wizard Extraordinaire

Slimcreeper
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by Slimcreeper » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:56 am

Hmm, the 3rd circle ability would let you use karma on defensive skills or default avoid blow, but it's definitely more powerful on the talent ... I switched Air Dance and Avoid Blow out.

There could be a version of Returning Knack for Daggers. Call Missile is a little more Strain efficient, since you can use it once at the end of the battle, or after each round. Plus I really don't want them to need a knack to have it work.

I'll have to think about the karma ability.

Thanks for the feedback! Let me know if it it gets play!

Slimcreeper
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by Slimcreeper » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:10 am

I added karma on damage with size 1 and 2 weapons. They're really heavy on fighting abilities for a Durability 5 Discipline ...
I put Blade Juggle as an option and moved Disguise Self to 6th and Resist Taunt to 7th ...

Ideally they should be a nasty surprise in combat, but not front line.

ragbasti
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:09 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by ragbasti » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:12 pm

I would not introduce any new talents as just talents options. That makes little sense as the only reason to have them is if they are essential to the Discipline you are designing.

Contortionist should just be a high-ranking Knack for Acrobatics, it's too niche to take up talent slots and too thematic to be dropped entirely.

ChrisDDickey
Posts: 770
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:02 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by ChrisDDickey » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:32 pm

I have some issues with the 5th circle Quickblade ability.
I don't really like the "no matter what your initiative was, I spend 2 strain and suddenly I am better". I would make activating it cost 1 strain for every 2 points the attacker's initiative was higher. So if your attacker was 10 initiative higher, it would cost you 5 strain to activate the ability. If they were 20 higher, it would cost 10 strain, which might be a wound.

Also, the way it is worded, it allows the Sharper to automatically totally avoid the opponents attack, since it allows the sharper to take his entire turn between his opponents movement and his opponents attack. Example: Opponent and Sharper are 10 yards apart. Opponent has initiative 20 higher than the sharper, so would normally get to make an Air Dance extra attack. Opponent spends his move action and most of his movement rate to move next to sharper, and declares an attack. Sharper spends 2 strain to interrupt the attack, raises his initiative 20 points (which means no air dance attack), then makes all of his attacks, then moves 10 yards away from the opponent. Opponent then gets to take the rest of his turn, but has already used his movement action to move to where the sharper used to be, and has no movement rate left in any case, so does not get to make any attacks at all.

The way this ability is worded, for 2 strain a turn, a sharper can't be attacked by a single opponent at all, and that is just wrong.

Better ways. Like I said, raising Init should not be a flat 2 strain, it should be one strain per 2 points or something like that.
The Quickblade ability might be reworded to allow most actions at the new improved initiative, but absolutely no movement of any kind. Any movement the sharper wants to do must be done on his rolled initiative. That way, if the sharper fails to kill his attacker, the sharper is at least forced to still be next to the attacker when the attacker is allowed to complete his attack.

ragbasti
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:09 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by ragbasti » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:11 pm

Agreed, completely overlooked that one.
I would say that even 2 strain per point of ini might be too powerful.

Slimcreeper
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 pm

Re: Sharper

Post by Slimcreeper » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:28 pm

I'm surprised it took this long for anyone to notice that!

Although depending on where you come down on Conceal Object, maybe the opponent is just sitting there with their thumbs up their butts anyway ... I'll probably need to move Conceal Object further back and maybe move Disguise Self up.

I should clarify that the opponent is not committed to a close combat attack. They could switch to a ranged attack, and if they haven't used their move they could move up. It can only be used once per round. I would like to see some playtesting. I know compared to the Elementalist's stupid ability it's pretty powerful.

*Edit: I also added the requirement that they not be suffering from an Initiative Penalty due to Armor or Shields, like their defensive Karma ability. Again, playtesting would wash it out. I think they'd be good at skirmishing, though their damage potential is limited because of their weapon limitations. I don't *think* they'd be untouchable, certainly not more than a windling already is.

*Edit Edit: maybe it's just overloaded for a Circle Ability ... I have an idea
Last edited by Slimcreeper on Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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