Fourth Edition Errata, Clarifications, and FAQs

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
Dougansf
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Re: Fourth Edition Errata, Clarifications, and FAQs

Post by Dougansf » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:33 pm

Because it’s not really an attack test, it does no damage. It’s setting a Knockdown test TN, which must be higher than PD.

Belenus
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Re: Fourth Edition Errata, Clarifications, and FAQs

Post by Belenus » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:03 pm

Dougansf wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:33 pm
Because it’s not really an attack test, it does no damage. It’s setting a Knockdown test TN, which must be higher than PD.
Of course it is an attack test. You always need to check if you can hit the enemy before inflicting anything to him. The only difference to for example "Overpower [Special Maneuver]" is that you use the full attack to knockdown the enemy instead of only using part of it to inflict damage aswell.
And an attack test must not necessary always inflict damage, take disarm for example.

Bonhumm
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Re: Fourth Edition Errata, Clarifications, and FAQs

Post by Bonhumm » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:14 pm

Belenus wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:03 pm
Of course it is an attack test. You always need to check if you can hit the enemy before inflicting anything to him. The only difference to for example "Overpower [Special Maneuver]" is that you use the full attack to knockdown the enemy instead of only using part of it to inflict damage aswell.
And an attack test must not necessary always inflict damage, take disarm for example.
The attack test has already been done:

''After a successful close combat attack with Melee Weapons or a similar talent or skill the adept may use Shield Bash for the Damage test,''


Thus:

- Melee weapons to hit
- Shield bash for 'damage' (i.e. trying to knock down).

It's like an improved version of the 'attacking to knockdown' mechanics, nothing else. So, after hitting the target, the character decides whether he wants to use is weapon to deal 'regular' damage or the shield to attempt a knockdown. There is of course the question on whether this could be used with things like second attack or riposte.

Belenus
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Re: Fourth Edition Errata, Clarifications, and FAQs

Post by Belenus » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:20 pm

Bonhumm wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:14 pm
Belenus wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:03 pm
Of course it is an attack test. You always need to check if you can hit the enemy before inflicting anything to him. The only difference to for example "Overpower [Special Maneuver]" is that you use the full attack to knockdown the enemy instead of only using part of it to inflict damage aswell.
And an attack test must not necessary always inflict damage, take disarm for example.
The attack test has already been done:

''After a successful close combat attack with Melee Weapons or a similar talent or skill the adept may use Shield Bash for the Damage test,''


Thus:

- Melee weapons to hit
- Shield bash for 'damage' (i.e. trying to knock down).

It's like an improved version of the 'attacking to knockdown' mechanics, nothing else. So, after hitting the target, the character decides whether he wants to use is weapon to deal 'regular' damage or the shield to attempt a knockdown. There is of course the question on whether this could be used with things like second attack or riposte.
That's not correct, since this is not part of the Errata: “Standard Effects.”. You don't use Melee weapons to hit, you directly use Shield Drive to hit.
Same as "Dirty Fighting p.111" where you don't hit the target first to inflict the effect of this skill as you normally would with Surprise Strike.

Bonhumm
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Re: Fourth Edition Errata, Clarifications, and FAQs

Post by Bonhumm » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:32 pm

Belenus wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:20 pm

That's not correct, since this is not part of the Errata.
Is there a another errata that I missed? The only one I could find (the very first post of this thread) the only thing about shield bash is:
Clarification: This talent is not compatible with Second Weapon.

Thus, other than that, everything else in the core rule should still apply.


CORRECTION: OK, I just realized we are not talking about the Shield Bash Talent but about the Shield Drive Knack.

I don't know much about knacks (did read about them yet) but it is my understanding that they basically just give:

a- an ADDITIONAL effect on top of the Talent (when 'standard effects' is noted in the knack)
b- an ALTERNATIVE effect to the Talent (when not).

The Talent itself requires a successful Melee Weapons (or similar) roll to be used. If (and only if) you hit the target you then get to use the Shield Bash Talent, either as its 'true' version or its knack. Basically the knack replace (or stack on top of) the effect, it does not change the requirements. This would also apply, as I see it, to Surprise Strike/Dirty Fighting.

Guess we would (again) need a Dev on this.

Belenus
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Re: Fourth Edition Errata, Clarifications, and FAQs

Post by Belenus » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:59 pm

Bonhumm wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:32 pm
The Talent itself requires a successful Melee Weapons (or similar) roll to be used. If (and only if) you hit the target you then get to use the Shield Bash Talent, either as its 'true' version or its knack. Basically the knack replace (or stack on top of) the effect, it does not change the requirements. This would also apply, as I see it, to Surprise Strike/Dirty Fighting.

Guess we would (again) need a Dev on this.
Dirty Fighting is in comparison to Surprise Strike a test based on Rank + CHA and therefore doesn't have anything to do with an Melee Attack.
So when the attribute was changed for this knack to fit the knack's description and usage, it should be done so with Shield Drive aswell ("The adept quickly bashes the target with their shield and makes a Shield Drive test against the target’s Physical Defense." -> Attack against physical defense, not "damage" against physical armor -> DEX instead of STR).

Dougansf
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Re: Fourth Edition Errata, Clarifications, and FAQs

Post by Dougansf » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:16 pm

Belenus wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:03 pm
And an attack test must not necessary always inflict damage, take disarm for example.
I don't consider Disarm an attack either. They're both debuff talents that goes against the targets PD.

Just like Acrobatic Defense is a buff talent that goes against the opponents PD.

Belenus
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Re: Fourth Edition Errata, Clarifications, and FAQs

Post by Belenus » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:39 pm

Companion thread weapon Truefang, p. 239 Thread Rank Nine:
"Effect: The owner gains the Deadly Bite special maneuver. Deadly Bite (Owner, Truefang): The owner may spend additional successes for 1 Strain per success, causing the sword to glow red, starting at the arrow on the blade. The target takes 2 damage points each round at the beginning of their turn until their injuries are treated (including magical healing), or they die. The damage begins on the following round."
Why should I spend more than 1 success / strain, if there is no additional effect for doing so? The damage is always 2, not 2 for each success spent (which would be overwhelmingly strong) and the duration is always until it is treated.

Belenus
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Re: Fourth Edition Errata, Clarifications, and FAQs

Post by Belenus » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:30 am

Belenus wrote: p. 103 Companion
Shield Drive
Spoiler:
Talent: Shield Bash
Requirements: Rank 6
Restrictions: None
Step: Rank+STR
Action: Simple
Strain: 2
Skill Use: Yes (Journeyman)

The adept quickly bashes the target with their shield and makes a Shield Drive test against the target’s Physical Defense. If successful, the target makes a Knockdown test against the Shield Drive result. The adept loses any Defense bonuses from their shield until their action in the following round.
I find it strange that you use Rank+STR for an attack test?

---------------------------------------------------------

p. 107 Companion
Deflection
Spoiler:
Talent: Spellcasting
Requirements: Rank 4
Restrictions: Wizard 4
Step: Rank+PER
Action:Standard (Special)
Strain: 1
Skill Use: No

The Wizard enhances an ally’s ability to evade attack. The Wizard touches a willing target and makes a Spellcasting (6) test. If successful, the target gains +2 Physical Defense until the end of the next round. Using this knack is a Simple action if the adept used Wizardry to attempt weaving threads this round.
If it is an ability cast on an ally (can you cast it on yourself too?), why do you cast it against a 6 and not against the mystic defense of the target?
Same question for other spellcasting knacks.

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Companion thread weapon Truefang, p. 239 Thread Rank Nine:
"Effect: The owner gains the Deadly Bite special maneuver. Deadly Bite (Owner, Truefang): The owner may spend additional successes for 1 Strain per success, causing the sword to glow red, starting at the arrow on the blade. The target takes 2 damage points each round at the beginning of their turn until their injuries are treated (including magical healing), or they die. The damage begins on the following round."
Why should I spend more than 1 success / strain, if there is no additional effect for doing so? The damage is always 2, not 2 for each success spent (which would be overwhelmingly strong) and the duration is always until it is treated.

---------------------------------------------------------

Companion Enchanting Lode Attribute Table p. 126:
What are the success costs for "Extraordinary Danger" and "Extreme Danger"? There is no value in the companion.

---------------------------------------------------------

Companion Jacoti, Albino p. 286f
Fog Cloud (Simple):
Spoiler:
The albino jacoti expels fog from its nose, quickly enveloping a 4-yard radius around it, causing Complete Darkness to anyone within the area, or targeting something within the area. This power may not be used on the same turn as Difficult Terrain. This power may be used once per round.
Does the Albino Jacoti suffer from the effect itself? (Same question for Difficult Terrain)
I'd like a devs opinion on this topics please.

Panda
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Re: Fourth Edition Errata, Clarifications, and FAQs

Post by Panda » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:20 pm

Greetings,

Shield Drive and Spellcasting knacks are correct as written and currently have no errata. Yes, the person using the knack is a valid target of the knack.

True Fang: The indication more than one additional success can be spent is an artifact of a previous ability which wasn't corrected during editing. It is limited to one success.

Lode Attributes: The effects are described in the text immediately adjacent to the table. Given there are different starting points depending on the True element in question, the associated cost or benefit is relative and the table becomes very messy.

Jacoti, Albino: Yes, they are affected by both powers.

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