Issue with Talent format (see Claw Shape)

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
Post Reply
OriginalWordweaver
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:09 pm

Issue with Talent format (see Claw Shape)

Post by OriginalWordweaver » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:16 pm

After having seen the previews for the high-circle talents, I have noticed that Claw Shape is the only talent that gets a fixed bonus to its talent step (this was a rare but not completely unique occurence in ED1, but seemed to have been abandoned in later editions).

Now I have started wondering whether this is an oversight. In the interest of balancing out the game, and streamlining the talent format, I've started to feel more and more inclined to seeing this as an oversight and reducing the Claw Shape step to just STR+Rank. Is there an official stance or input by further forumites on this?

Dougansf
Posts: 314
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:14 am

Re: Issue with Talent format (see Claw Shape)

Post by Dougansf » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:48 pm

Not official, but...

It's to put their damage output on par with other fighters that use weapons. +3 is the same bonus as a Club.

ragbasti
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:09 pm

Re: Issue with Talent format (see Claw Shape)

Post by ragbasti » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:54 pm

During the development of ED4, the bonus to Claw Shape was restored (Rank + STR +3) to make it a comparable choice to an actual weapon, rather than forcing Beastmasters to spend skill points on a weapon skill as a crutch for early Circles. While this can equal, or even exceed, a broad sword at First Circle, the advantage begins to wane quickly. Weapons can be improved with Forge Weapon, while Claw Shape only through Legend Points and it is a discipline talent. The ultimate cost of Claw Shape is one of opportunity - they are using a talent to keep up with a weapon instead. There are a couple of benefits to balance this situation. One is they can never be disarmed and the other is the additional karma on damage, which can be used (on average) to push them to just under the damage for a two-handed sword.
From here
(which is as official as it gets)

tldr:
without the +3 bonus a beastmaster will be lacking behind the others as a combat dicipline, that's why they brought it back
Last edited by ragbasti on Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Telarus
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:16 am

Re: Issue with Talent format (see Claw Shape)

Post by Telarus » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:55 pm

You could simply change the talent description to add a separate Step3/d4 die to any damage test involving Claw Shape (which is now straight Str+Rank). This will be more "swingy" than a flat 3 step bonus, as you are increasing the total # of die in the pool "early". But oh man, when that d4 explodes twice, wow. 8-)

(BTW, this is how Flame Weapon used to work.)

OriginalWordweaver
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:09 pm

Re: Issue with Talent format (see Claw Shape)

Post by OriginalWordweaver » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:18 pm

I have no beef with the balance of the thing, especially compared with weaponry options. It just feels "untidy" to me to have this exception to the whole talent framework (and having to design a character sheet with more space that has to have special accommodation for one single talent - I do that for all the games I run). I can live with it though. It just felt odd to me, and I was wondering whether there have been any more thoughts on the matter.

Thank you for your advice and giving me that developer quote.

User avatar
Kosmit
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:41 pm
Location: Warsaw
Contact:

Re: Issue with Talent format (see Claw Shape)

Post by Kosmit » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:27 am

It's not the only talent that does it. I saw it in Companion Preview. It's not that odd and easy to remember by Beastmaster (same as with weapons for other disciplines). You never forget to add your weapon to your dmg, do you?

Post Reply