4E Air Ship Rules

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
Sharkforce
Posts: 349
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:39 am

Re: 4E Air Ship Rules

Post by Sharkforce » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:55 am

well, sure, except that iirc, the old rules for a little boat to carry a few people around comes in at something like 15,000 silver, and my GMs like to keep me hungry for silver. spells, training, forging, skills, all kinds of stuff chips away at the silver I've earned... I wouldn't be surprised if I had a lifetime total of 15k silver on my character (who has gained sufficient LP to get to about circle 9), but just at this moment I've got maybe 1500 silver I think, and that's going to get eaten up by training pretty soon.

Kigmatzomat
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:52 pm

Re: 4E Air Ship Rules

Post by Kigmatzomat » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:51 am

That depends on your game. You would need 9k just for training to 9th circle in 4E. One suit of crystal plate (12k) is most of an air ship. 10 war horses are 15k.

Elemental materials, old spell books and thread items are worth more than gold.

Of course, with no rules, who knows.....

Sharkforce
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:39 am

Re: 4E Air Ship Rules

Post by Sharkforce » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:19 am

circle 9 requires 2.5k silver.

I don't need 10 warhorses, and in fact have bought 0 (I am a Shaman, among other things, and have animal companions, but even if I was buying them - which I mostly am not - I wouldn't have bought 10).

and while there are those who might argue that thread items are "priceless", I would point out that there is a very specific cost to make them, and there are places that buy and sell them. they are a relatively rare commodity, but so are adepts, and no, you aren't getting 10,000 silver for that unremarkable thread sword you brought in (now, this is not to say that *certain* thread items could not be priceless... but I can't say that I've found any truly legendary thread items, although I have been fortunate in acquiring some that have a pretty obvious floor on their value, including a suit of wyvern skin armour).

a grimoire full of spells could be worth quite a bit, but most likely isn't. I mean, sure, it may have a theoretical value of, say, 2,000 silver as a result of having a bunch of circle 1-3 spells in it, but practically speaking anyone who can afford to spend 2,000 silver probably already knows most of the lower circle spells. if you've got one that has great historical significance (from a famous magician, or simply has extremely interesting information recorded in it considering that a grimoire is not *only* spells) or has a number of high circle spells, you might get a lot for it, but I can't say that I've defeated tons of high circle magicians and captured their grimoires (in fact, there's only one that I can think of off the top of my head that I have, and considering she had some pretty evident horror gifts and was literally in the act of calling up a horror from the nether realms to possess an entire air ship when I met her, for some reason I can't help suspecting that her grimoire is functionally worth *nothing* to any sane individual, and is only worth anything at all to people who I have a strong preference to never ever ever ever get their hands on it).

and no, I didn't get to keep the air ship. the troll moot I was helping kinda wanted it back, and I wanted to 1) get paid (as discussed, I have a perpetual shortage of silver), 2) not get hunted down by an entire troll moot for hijacking their prized heirloom possibly-legendary airship, and 3) keep my integrity.

ragbasti
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:09 pm

Re: 4E Air Ship Rules

Post by ragbasti » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:27 pm

Sharkforce wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:19 am
circle 9 requires 2.5k silver.
That just what you pay for training from C8 to C9. 8.8k is what you pay in total for training, based on PG454.

Overall though, Air Ships are rare in-system. It's just that most GMs ignore that fact in favour of the rule of cool.
In over 15 years of play, our group was in possession of an Air Ship twice. And it was never a combat-ready one that made us want for any rules other than how to get away from whoever is coming at us.

Games differ and in the OP's case, they need the rules. However, having and maintaining an Air Ship is definitely not something the developers are trying to paint as normal and looking at all the official ED1-ED4 adventures out there, Air Ships play a rather minor role.

Kigmatzomat
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:52 pm

Re: 4E Air Ship Rules

Post by Kigmatzomat » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:03 pm

To get to 9th circle you spend ~9k (200+300+500+800+1000+1500+2000+2500)

I brought up war horses because we, as a group, went through them like tissue paper. Traps, beast ambushes, area of effect spells, they died like flies. And regular riding horses panicked and got us nearly killed too often to rely on them.

We play mountain troll-centric campaigns. Sky raiders are a big part of that. I don't think I have been in a game without at least one sky raider. (Usually two after 2nd disciplines are taken). We don't play where a whole ship os crewed by sky raiders, they are the captain, helmsman, navigator, bosun.

A sky raider or air sailor without a ship is akin to a Cavalryman without a mount.

Sharkforce
Posts: 349
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:39 am

Re: 4E Air Ship Rules

Post by Sharkforce » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:03 pm

Kigmatzomat wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:03 pm
To get to 9th circle you spend ~9k (200+300+500+800+1000+1500+2000+2500)

I brought up war horses because we, as a group, went through them like tissue paper. Traps, beast ambushes, area of effect spells, they died like flies. And regular riding horses panicked and got us nearly killed too often to rely on them.

We play mountain troll-centric campaigns. Sky raiders are a big part of that. I don't think I have been in a game without at least one sky raider. (Usually two after 2nd disciplines are taken). We don't play where a whole ship os crewed by sky raiders, they are the captain, helmsman, navigator, bosun.

A sky raider or air sailor without a ship is akin to a Cavalryman without a mount.
well given a choice between contributing a bunch of silver towards an airship or actually circling up, I'm gonna circle up, thanks :P

as to your war horse problem, sounds like maybe you should be investing in something a little tougher. or have someone be a beastmaster or cavalryman so that your mounts can get a little tougher. or start buying combat-trained goats. or maybe just stop relying on mounts; there's a pair of boots that will give you an overland speed comparable to them, as I recall.

we have a fair number of sky raiders and air sailors in our campaign. none have decided to retire for a year or two so that they can take the time to craft an airship.

and no, a sky raider or air sailor without an air ship is definitely not akin to a cavalryman without a mount. they get talents that are useful on airships, but are also useful in a variety of other scenarios, and only one that *requires* an airship to function (and that one is the talent to sail an airship), plus a discipline ability for the air sailor, and it is worth noting that the air sailor gets the talent as a free talent while the sky raider doesn't even have to ever choose the talent at all, and given the TN is pretty low could probably manage just fine with the skill. meanwhile, a cavalryman has something like half or more of their discipline talents devoted to being on a mount or enhancing their mount. it really is not the same. not even close.

an air sailor off an airship is a highly effective character capable of performing almost as well as a warrior in combat, and almost as well as a troubadour in social scenarios. a cavalryman off their mount is more like a troubadour when it comes to combat and more like a warrior when it comes to social scenarios (unless the social scenario is specifically with animals).

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