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FASA Games, Inc.FASA Games Forums and News 2025-06-03T01:32:01 http://fasagames.com/forum/app.php/feed/topic/89 2025-06-03T01:32:012025-06-03T01:32:01 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=26077#p26077 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread (and replacement thereof)]]> audiobookkeeper.rucottagenet.rueyesvision.rueyesvisions.comfactoringfee.rufilmzones.rugadwall.rugaffertape.rugageboard.rugagrule.rugallduct.rugalvanometric.rugangforeman.rugangwayplatform.rugarbagechute.rugardeningleave.rugascautery.rugashbucket.rugasreturn.rugatedsweep.rugaugemodel.rugaussianfilter.rugearpitchdiameter.ru
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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Tue Jun 03, 2025 1:32 am

]]> 2025-05-25T01:42:122025-05-25T01:42:12 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=24049#p24049 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread (and replacement thereof)]]> друг590.8волнBettMarcВаенКрымAzizЮрьеJaneСоснАрдаDekoNX-6факуArabистоCrys1516KitcСегеСахнOrie
MoreАрмаTescTramGarnсертTeanMadaEastHeinDigiDeepСН00EnueинтеCredExpeвузосертсертпустVIOLсерт
MicrKoboEvelэпохнебеAbenChicBozeАСЗаМороСулеMariпостФадеrickсоздГостRoxyRoxyNikiMariZoogSaro
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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Sun May 25, 2025 1:42 am

]]> 2017-03-27T01:22:462017-03-27T01:22:46 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=2069#p2069 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread (and replacement thereof)]]>
After re-reading the original post material, I realized I neglected extra successes. Duration is probably the safest bet, +2 for the base effect and +1 for the Knack. Thoughts?

Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:22 am

]]> 2017-03-27T01:02:002017-03-27T01:02:00 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=2068#p2068 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]>
This end suggestion just feels like the best solution. Many tables won't be willing to completely swap out a published Talent with something else, be it an Option Talent, a non-Option Talent but published in the core book, or a fan-made Talent. That means that an end solution that would likely be widely palatable would need to bend things, not really replace things. I think this does that.

At it's core, this suggestion is just a change in numbers, not intent. It changes the number of threads that can be held be default (1 -> any), the duration (rounds -> minutes), and the cost (Strain/turn -> Strain at activation), but the actual effect stays almost entirely the same. The only key mechanical difference is changing the timing: originally, Hold Thread was a Simple Action that had to follow a Threadweaving test, whereas this is a Standard Action that effectively swaps into the Spellcasting test.

Beyond that, the suggested name change is really just a facilitator. Many people feel that the base effect is still just too weak and wanted to see the secondary effect (the Knack). Combing them into a single Talent effect was just two wordy as it REALLY is two effects in a single Talent. However, by changing the NAME of the Talent, we provide a meaningful scaffold for other type of "hold" effects, which the "hold a reusable thread" falls into. The base effect is still the same - you're holding single use thread(s) for a differed spellcasting - but explicitly opening the door to other Knacks that differ/reuse core magician things.

Anyways, as ever, this is just my suggestion - definitely take it, massage it, or leave it. I'm definitely interested in hearing thoughts on costing, as I'd previously mentioned. Aside from that, I feel like I'd count this as a success - it seems to address the significant and thoughtful input from many people, and I think it's reasonable enough that most tables that look at Hold Thread and say "this is not good" could lift this and run with it, even if they still feel they need/want a few tweaks.

Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:02 am

]]> 2017-03-26T12:52:172017-03-26T12:52:17 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=2059#p2059 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]> Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:52 pm

]]> 2017-03-25T00:20:322017-03-25T00:20:32 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=2055#p2055 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]>
  • The base intent of the Talent stays the same but significantly increased.
    • The guiding principle here is parity with the other Disciplines.
      Both close and ranged combatants can hold their weapon ready-to-strike Strain free, without a special Talent, and without risk of failing. The idea of a triple penalty for magicians is very uncomfortable for me (requires Talent, that costs Strain, and could fail to work at the start or any intervening re-test). Without really munging things up, we can't undo the fact that this Talent exists, but we can significantly shape it to make it useful for its presence.
    • Duration changed to Rank minutes rather than Rank turns.
    • The effect can hold an entire spell, regardless of number of threads, without the need for the "Hold Multiple Threads" knack.
    • Strain is a one-time cost, with 1 Strain per thread. I'm entirely open to people suggesting an increase here (2 maybe, 3 pushes it), but I personally don't agree with a per-turn cost.
  • The idea of a reusable thread is added as a knack.
    • If I had my druthers, I'd just add it as a base effect to the Talent, but the wording gets really messy in that case.
    • This effect is pretty powerful, and even though the base Talent doesn't appear until Circle 7 or 8, this still merits a SLIGHT price premium. I placed it at Circle 5 as an analogy to Journeyman. I'm entirely open to people suggesting this should be at Circle 9 (Warden), given what it brings to the table.
    • Pretty hefty cost. I used the old Aid Summoner from previous editions as a template. Given what this potentially brings to the table (a magician could cast a spell with 2 base threads every turn), I think it'd warranted. I'd actually be open to people suggesting an increase in the per-use cost, maybe to 2.
    • This is intentionally not easy. By aiming at the Reattunement Difficulty, it fits many of the old edition Knack models that required a "good" success. Still,
      good chance that it's at least 50/50 success for same-Circle spells, better if Karma is thrown at it.
    • I love this, but I do worry that it may still be a bit too strong. I'd be interested in hearing additional cost models. One thought would be the REQUIREMENT to spend karma on the test (I know, this isn't a thing anymore), or otherwise just say that the test "consumes" a karma point (like many Talents "consume" Recovery Tests).
    • IMPORTANT QUESTION: The original Talent text doesn't say anything about this effect being visible. Pretty much every other Talent with a sustained effect has a tell. Do you think we should add a tell? Something visible in the physical plane might be a bit much, since Astral energy isn't visible there, and spells don't have an appearance until the are cast. Astrally, though, I definitely think it should be evident that someone is holding a round in the chamber.

    ---------- TALENT ----------
    Hold Magic
    Action: Standard
    Duration: Rank Minutes
    Strain: see text

    <This Talent Replaces “Hold Thread”>

    When a magician would make a Spellcasting test to cast a fully woven spell, they may instead choose to hold the spell at the ready rather than casting it. The magician must first pay one Strain for each thread they wove to the spell via a Threadweaving test (or any test that replaces this Talent for the purpose of weaving spell threads). The magician then makes a Standard Action Hold Magic test versus the Attunement Difficulty of the spell. If the test is successful, the magician holds the spell at the ready for RANK minutes. At any time, the magician may cast this spell as a normal Spellcasting test or Concise Casting test. Once cast, the Hold Magic effect ends, the spell is expended.

    The magician cannot use Spellcasting to cast any other spells while this effect is active. Concise Casting can still be used as normal. At any time, the magician can release the captive spell energy to end this effect without casting the spell. Any time the duration for this effect would end, the magician can perform another Hold Magic test to continue the effect. If the test fails, the spell must be cast in the following round or be lost.

    ---------- KNACK ----------
    Resiliant Thread
    Talent: Hold Magic
    Circle: 5
    Strain: see text
    A magician can fashion a portion of his True Pattern into the shape of a particular spell’s thread to expedite future spell casting. The magician must pay a number of Strain equal to the Circle of the spell to which the thread belongs. Then, the magician makes a Hold Magic test against the spell’s Reattunement difficulty. If successful, the magician may cast the target spell for Rank turns as if the spell had one fewer base threads or, if it is already at 0 threads, has one free extra thread. Every time the magician chooses to use this extra thread, they must pay 1 Strain at the time of the Spellcasting or Concise Casting test. If this effect creates an extra thread, then the effect of the extra thread must be chosen at the time of the successful Hold Magic test; it cannot be changed until the Hold Magic effect ends. A magician can only have one such Hold Thread effect active at any time. A magician may end an active Hold Thread at will rather than waiting for the duration to expire.

    Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:20 am

    ]]>         2017-02-03T09:49:062017-02-03T09:49:06 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=1282#p1282 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]>

    Statistics:Posted by Kosmit — Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:49 am

    ]]>         2017-02-03T08:42:102017-02-03T08:42:10 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=1281#p1281 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]>
    Player's Guide, Targeting Spells, pg 254 wrote:The caster can only create that arc if he can see (or otherwise sense) the target. ... Any method that makes the magician certain of the target’s location allows the creation of the proper astral arc. For example, a magician who is touching a target when casting a spell is certain of the target’s location, even if he can’t see the target. In the same manner, a magician can place an area effect spell at the end of his outstretched fingertips.
    Player's Guide, Lifesight, pg 156 wrote:An adept can use Lifesight to view a target’s life force through solid, non-living objects.
    So, this kind of definitely answers whether self/touch can be used (it can), and while I can't remember if Lifesight existing before ED4, it certainly does now, and would certainly work through any form of physical barrier.

    Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:42 am

    ]]>         2017-02-03T07:18:262017-02-03T07:18:26 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=1278#p1278 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]>

    Statistics:Posted by Kosmit — Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:18 am

    ]]>         2017-02-03T04:49:572017-02-03T04:49:57 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=1277#p1277 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]> Statistics:Posted by Telarus — Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:49 am

    ]]>         2017-02-03T03:42:452017-02-03T03:42:45 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=1276#p1276 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]>
    Telarus wrote:How does one prevent a mage from casting? Prevent them from completing the Astral Arc, usually by blindfolding them (let's assume this also blocks astral "sight").
    Almost every single spell has somatic components to them, some larger than others. Very few can be cast with bound hands.

    Not all spells require sight, either optical or astral. Spells that are target "self" would easily fall into this category, and I'd argue that target "touch" also falls into this category.

    Threadweaving is really a per-table thing, as far as I can tell and based on Mataxes's comment. You either determine it requires a somatic component or it's all mental, and if it requires a somatic component, how much and what is the mechanical impact (in this instance, is wiggling ones fingers with bound wrists enough).

    So, a 0 thread spell with target "self" or "touch" that manifests flame in the targets's hand should, in theory, be able to be cast and to burn through rope bindings, as long as it doesn't require any other somatic components ("fire just appears engulfing the hand" versus "magician claps and, as a result, both hands are engulfed in flamed"). Now, the magician will very likely suffer some damage (the fire, undoubtedly, doesn't hurt his hands, but not necessarily other parts of his both, and fire on flammable material like rope and clothing is NOT the same fire as on the hands), but this would totally work for someone bound, gagged, blindfolded, and ear-cuffed (i.e., the standard D&D anti-caster trick).

    Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:42 am

    ]]>         2017-02-03T03:13:382017-02-03T03:13:38 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=1274#p1274 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]> Statistics:Posted by Telarus — Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:13 am

    ]]>         2017-02-03T02:36:442017-02-03T02:36:44 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=1273#p1273 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]>
    The Undying wrote:For what it's worth, I added a summary to my original post. Figured it might be help for people that come along after the fact and don't want to wade through all the discussion.
    Nice.

    Statistics:Posted by Tattered Rags — Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:36 am

    ]]>         2017-02-03T00:27:192017-02-03T00:27:19 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=1272#p1272 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]> Statistics:Posted by The Undying — Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:27 am

    ]]>         2017-02-02T23:12:012017-02-02T23:12:01 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&p=1268#p1268 <![CDATA[Re: Hold Thread]]> Statistics:Posted by Kosmit — Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:12 pm

    ]]>