Mataxes wrote: ↑
See, I just assumed that was Troll.Thu May 10, 2018 1:53 am
Hawk Greatgust's ship (called Crimson Vintage in the final book) was called Fíon Dearg in the earlier drafts.Statistics:Posted by etherial — Thu May 10, 2018 2:04 am
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Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Thu May 10, 2018 1:53 am
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I know there was an airship Named in Gaelic that I nixed (changing it to a close English equivalent) because it so blatantly stood out. There might have been a couple of others that weren't as obvious, but the airship was the big one I remember.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Wed May 09, 2018 10:05 pm
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I also put some Irish words into the manuscrip, not all made it through editing, but I think a few did, so have at it nerds
Statistics:Posted by Flowswithdrek — Wed May 09, 2018 6:13 pm
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Seriously tho, I can understand that the 'weight' of previous content (i.e. canon) can be heavy on you. Earthdawn had 4 previous editions that each added a bit to its history and background as the years went by (plus it's 'now unofficial' link with Shadowrun) so keeping continuity in line must be very hard, especially since (based on other posts you made) your creative team seems to be very small.
We (at least I am) are very pleased that you choose to continue this universe instead of attempting a 'reboot' like they did, for example, with 7th Sea who just threw out of the window about 30 books worth of content to completely start over the universe into something with a similar atmosphere but with world so completely different from the previous edition that nothing is valid anymore and that the users have to wait for the new books to (slowly) come out, impeding in the process the tools of the game master who is afraid to venture outside the limited described universe in fear of being 'overridden' by new canon the next month.
Please do not take our discussions about the Earthdawn universe as a complaint to you or FASA about the continuity/canon of the universe. We are just a bunch of nerds fantasizing about this vast and rich universe you guys have created and I assure you that this is a very, very good sign.
Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Tue May 08, 2018 11:16 pm
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One of my personal bugaboos lately is the attempts by big studios to create mega-franchises in the pattern of the Marvel movieverse, and the related obsession in the fan community with canon and continuity.
Speaking of Marvel, I'm reminded of the "No-Prize", given out in the letters columns of yore, when a fan would come up with an explanation for an apparent continuity error or similar problem.
No harm, no foul. It's all good.
Edit to add: The "you" in the bit you quoted should probably be read more as a general you rather than a personal you. But I can understand the confusion.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Tue May 08, 2018 10:39 pm
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Mataxes wrote: ↑
My apologies if my posts came across as some sort of attack. So I feel like I should clarify my intent.Tue May 08, 2018 1:26 pm
Look, I'm as guilty as anyone of obsessing over trivia and mastering lore. But there comes a time when, honestly, you just need to accept that it's a fictional world and not every detail is going to hang together like a perfect crystal chandelier. (...)You're of course completely right: this is a game, it's not perfect and will never be. And in fact, at no point have I said "we should burn all the Travar books and print them again"
It's a fine book -- a great one, even. If my post was intended as a serious criticism of the product I would have posted it in the "Product Discussion" section. As I said in my original post, this is only an idea that crossed my sleepless mind while reading through the Travar book for the second time. This is the "For Game Masters" section, and -- for me at least -- coming up with theories to explain discrepancies in the world is part of the fun of being a GM. Discrepancies, contradictions, shady areas, strange Names... are where ideas are born for an adventure, a NPC, an artifact... Maybe some of the other Game Masters will find them useful, or inspiring, or bad, and that's OK. I'm certainly not trying to suggest it should be made canon or anything.
I mean, if that was the case, I would have sent you a proposal for an Athenai / Rugaria sourcebook instead of posting it here
Statistics:Posted by Marzhin — Tue May 08, 2018 2:27 pm
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Look, I'm as guilty as anyone of obsessing over trivia and mastering lore. But there comes a time when, honestly, you just need to accept that it's a fictional world and not every detail is going to hang together like a perfect crystal chandelier.
(And the little detail that ruins it? It's gonna be different for different people! You can't win!)
So, yeah. There's gonna be stuff that doesn't necessarily hang together. As mentioned earlier, they don't speak English in Throal, but the books are written in English for a (primarily) English-speaking audience. The nature of etymology means words will show up referencing stuff they couldn't actually reference in Barsaive.
And that's okay. To borrow from the great sage Joel Hodgson, "Repeat to yourself it's just a game. You should really just relax."
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Tue May 08, 2018 1:26 pm
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Mataxes wrote: ↑
Well, that's the thing: despite what the legends say, historians think the goddess was named after the city, not the other way around ^^'Mon May 07, 2018 4:38 pm
That references in an old (forgotten) language were used for Athena (goddess of wisdom), from which the city (Athens) took its name?Statistics:Posted by Marzhin — Mon May 07, 2018 9:35 pm
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That references in an old (forgotten) language were used for Athena (goddess of wisdom), from which the city (Athens) took its name?
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Mon May 07, 2018 4:38 pm
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Lys wrote: ↑
Maybe, although I believe that in a setting where Names hold so much power, writers need to be careful.Mon May 07, 2018 4:34 am
Also with respect to Athens in Earthdawn, one should remember that while a lot of material in Earthdawn's books are presented as being in-character, these are clearly translations for the benefit of the modern audience. Barsaivians obviously neither speak English nor write with the Latin Alphabet. Consequently the most parsimonious explanation for why a library in Travar is referred to as an Athenaeum is that its actual name uses a word that references a different place of learning - likely either Throal or Thera - which was translated to Athenaeum for the benefit for the English speaking reader.Statistics:Posted by Marzhin — Mon May 07, 2018 1:01 pm
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As for the colour map in the Theran Empire book, one really should not put a lot of weight on it. It's clearly full of errors contradicting the material presented both in the book and elsewhere. Most egregiously, it shows Creana as being next to the Earthdawn equivalent of the Nile, rather than along it as clearly depicted in the Creana chapter, and indeed as common sense would expect. What's more the map isn't even presented as being in-character, so no further explanation is needed to explain its mistakes than the artist not being very familiar with the setting.
Also with respect to Athens in Earthdawn, one should remember that while a lot of material in Earthdawn's books are presented as being in-character, these are clearly translations for the benefit of the modern audience. Barsaivians obviously neither speak English nor write with the Latin Alphabet. Consequently the most parsimonious explanation for why a library in Travar is referred to as an Athenaeum is that its actual name uses a word that references a different place of learning - likely either Throal or Thera - which was translated to Athenaeum for the benefit for the English speaking reader.
Statistics:Posted by Lys — Mon May 07, 2018 4:34 am
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Marzhin wrote: ↑
In any case, we can all agree that if it exists in Earthdawn Athens/Athēnai would be part of the Theran Empire
I agree with you on all accounts.Fri May 04, 2018 9:45 pm
Browsing rapidly through the Theran Empire sourcebook, I'm beginning to believe what was indicated as "Vivane" on its map is actually supposed to be Rugaria. For instance it describes the city of Okonopolis, which "lies on a peninsula where the Selestrean Sea meets Death's Sea, southeast of the Theran province of Rugaria." If you look at the Theran Empire map, that's clearly in the blue area called "Vivane", so that's probably a mistake on the map. The actual province of Vivane is indeed the small area between Rugaria and Barsaive (and since the fall of Sky Point, it probably doesn't exist anymore anyway).Geekabilly wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 9:05 pmAre you going off the map from Theran Empire? Because the big fold out map that comes with Sky Point and Vivane clearly marks out the boundary of Vivane Province as north of Rugaria - it is itself quite a small landmass situated in the basin of the Danaba River. Rugaria itself isn't even marked on the Theran Empire map but it is south of Vivane Province, therefore Vivane can't really cover the rest of Attic peninsula, but it is possible that Rugaria might. Vivane Province is situated almost exactly were Moesia was - north and east of Thracia.
In any case, we can all agree that if it exists in Earthdawn Athens/Athēnai would be part of the Theran Empire
Statistics:Posted by Geekabilly — Sat May 05, 2018 6:20 am
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Bonhumm wrote: ↑
I now realize I actually had completely dismissed the Vivane and Skypoint books. Back when it went out I never gave out much attention because I was still busy learning everything Barsaive and never planned to go there and, once I got interested with the Empire, I just went for the Theran book. Therefore, checking the books now I realize that I (probably) never read them nor seen that map! So whatever I'm saying here might be contradicted by the books but here it is:
The map, indeed, does show a 'Vivane Province' a lot smaller than the Theran map. I can see several possibilities for that:
- The (vivane) map is just incomplete, period. This could be due to the fact that this area is (or is considered) wild and mostly uninhibited/of no interest for mapmakers (i.e. old Russians maps dint show much details about Alaska)
- The (theran) map is incorrect, an error during production. We could role-play it as an exaggeration from Theran officials when they 'shared' the map of their Empire to the Barsaive's delegation. After all the map IS rather weird as it's missing half of Spain/Catalonia.
- The Vivane province expended between the release of the Vivane Book and the Theran Book. It is of course possible as Thera is...well... an Empire.
The map is indeed quite strange. Reading more about Vivane it turns out that it isn't really a province - at least not in the same way that say Marac or Vasgothia is a province. The Therans took to calling the lands around Vivane City Vivane Province after the 1st Theran War with Barsaive. There's a bit of Naming magic going on there too to help solidify Theran control of that land. There's clearly an inconsistency when comparing Theran Empire and Sky Point & Vivane and not just with this issue. Vivane Book One provides a brief overview of some of the Theran Provinces and these details are actually missing from Theran Empire despite it supposedly expanding upon the material in Sky Point & Vivane. It's a shame Rugaria wasn't given its own chapter in Theran Empire really.Fri May 04, 2018 9:44 pm
I did refer to the Theran map indeed.I now realize I actually had completely dismissed the Vivane and Skypoint books. Back when it went out I never gave out much attention because I was still busy learning everything Barsaive and never planned to go there and, once I got interested with the Empire, I just went for the Theran book. Therefore, checking the books now I realize that I (probably) never read them nor seen that map! So whatever I'm saying here might be contradicted by the books but here it is:
The map, indeed, does show a 'Vivane Province' a lot smaller than the Theran map. I can see several possibilities for that:
- The (vivane) map is just incomplete, period. This could be due to the fact that this area is (or is considered) wild and mostly uninhibited/of no interest for mapmakers (i.e. old Russians maps dint show much details about Alaska)
- The (theran) map is incorrect, an error during production. We could role-play it as an exaggeration from Theran officials when they 'shared' the map of their Empire to the Barsaive's delegation. After all the map IS rather weird as it's missing half of Spain/Catalonia.
- The Vivane province expended between the release of the Vivane Book and the Theran Book. It is of course possible as Thera is...well... an Empire.
Statistics:Posted by Geekabilly — Sat May 05, 2018 6:20 am
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