Mataxes wrote: ↑
I've been meaning to do a blog post about this, but one of the things being done with some of these secondary/alternate Disciplines builds off the work we did for questors. That is, some older "Disciplines" seem to be much better suited with what (for lack of a better term so far) I've been calling "mystery cults".
For example, Horror Stalker. There will be a "Horror Stalker" ability, and it gives access to the neat-o keen Horror Stalker-specific talents, but it's intended to supplement an existing Discipline, not stand on its own. Lightbearers would fit into this new design space really nicely as well.
That sounds really cool, thanks for the "sneak peek" Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:33 pm
That book is largely Morgan's project, but the plan is for it to have many (if not all) of the not-yet-updated-to-ED4 Disciplines. He recently shared the ED4 Horror Stalker with me (though I haven't had much chance to look at it in depth yet). I know he's been working on Taildancer.I've been meaning to do a blog post about this, but one of the things being done with some of these secondary/alternate Disciplines builds off the work we did for questors. That is, some older "Disciplines" seem to be much better suited with what (for lack of a better term so far) I've been calling "mystery cults".
For example, Horror Stalker. There will be a "Horror Stalker" ability, and it gives access to the neat-o keen Horror Stalker-specific talents, but it's intended to supplement an existing Discipline, not stand on its own. Lightbearers would fit into this new design space really nicely as well.
Statistics:Posted by Marzhin — Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:58 pm
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Marzhin wrote: ↑
Is there any info you can share about the content of that book? Will it contain the various extra disciplines that haven't yet been officially updated to ED4 (Traveled Scholar, Horror Stalker, etc.) for instance? Or will it be something brand new?
That book is largely Morgan's project, but the plan is for it to have many (if not all) of the not-yet-updated-to-ED4 Disciplines. He recently shared the ED4 Horror Stalker with me (though I haven't had much chance to look at it in depth yet). I know he's been working on Taildancer.Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:35 pm
Is there any info you can share about the content of that book? Will it contain the various extra disciplines that haven't yet been officially updated to ED4 (Traveled Scholar, Horror Stalker, etc.) for instance? Or will it be something brand new?
I've been meaning to do a blog post about this, but one of the things being done with some of these secondary/alternate Disciplines builds off the work we did for questors. That is, some older "Disciplines" seem to be much better suited with what (for lack of a better term so far) I've been calling "mystery cults".
For example, Horror Stalker. There will be a "Horror Stalker" ability, and it gives access to the neat-o keen Horror Stalker-specific talents, but it's intended to supplement an existing Discipline, not stand on its own. Lightbearers would fit into this new design space really nicely as well.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:33 pm
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Mataxes wrote: ↑
Nice. I hope you'll do some art previews along the way Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:41 pm
Questors is back from layout and the pre-art proof has been sent out to KS backers while we get art drawn and dropped in. It should be out in PDF pretty soon (probably early July?) and we're hoping to have the print copies back from the printer in time to have them at GenCon the first weekend of August.Is there any info you can share about the content of that book? Will it contain the various extra disciplines that haven't yet been officially updated to ED4 (Traveled Scholar, Horror Stalker, etc.) for instance? Or will it be something brand new?
Statistics:Posted by Marzhin — Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:35 pm
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Calamrin wrote: ↑
Just wanting to get a rough time scale and order, and see if things are on track, and havent changed.
Questors is back from layout and the pre-art proof has been sent out to KS backers while we get art drawn and dropped in. It should be out in PDF pretty soon (probably early July?) and we're hoping to have the print copies back from the printer in time to have them at GenCon the first weekend of August.Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:40 pm
Just to keep up, is elven nations and questers still planned for release this year, with mystic emporium, then diciplines first half of next year?Just wanting to get a rough time scale and order, and see if things are on track, and havent changed.
Elven Nations is still in development. It is still planned for this year. Mystic Emporium and the (officially untitled) Discipline book are in the pipeline after that, but they're still being worked on. Also in production is an Iopos book, and a book on airships, riverboats, and large-scale combat (a big chunk of which was developed for the Companion but just wouldn't fit).
In more nebulous form: a book on Urupa, one on Arancia, and one looking at Rugaria, Great Thera, and the eastern Selestrean Sea. (Trying out a new writer on a smaller project updating some material with some new stuff as well.) We'll probably do a bestiary of some sort, and there are rumbles about dragons and/or Horrors books.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:41 pm
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Dougansf wrote: ↑
Could they be uses when Reattuning on the Fly as well?
Technically it's still Thread Weaving, but it ultimately depends on how you view reattuning on the fly. Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:03 pm
I'm really looking forward to those. Makes me actually want to Threadweave in combat.Could they be uses when Reattuning on the Fly as well?
This is new territory, so there might be some as-yet-unforeseen balance issues that shake out. The goal is to have these effects be comparatively minor -- not as good as what a spell can do -- so it shouldn't be too bad. But... I need to think about it a little bit.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:30 pm
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Just wanting to get a rough time scale and order, and see if things are on track, and havent changed.
Statistics:Posted by Calamrin — Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:40 pm
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Mataxes wrote: ↑
I'm really looking forward to those. Makes me actually want to Threadweave in combat.Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:00 am
But basically, there are a handful of Spellcasting knacks that can be used to create basic effects that vary between different magician Disciplines. They are normally a standard action, but if the magician is weaving a spell thread that round the knack can be used as a simple action. This allows a magician to do a little bit of something extra on the rounds they're weaving threads.Could they be uses when Reattuning on the Fly as well?
Statistics:Posted by Dougansf — Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:03 pm
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Tattered Rags wrote: ↑
I talked about them briefly in this blog post.Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:04 am
Sheesh. There is so much I missed in my skimming of the book.But basically, there are a handful of Spellcasting knacks that can be used to create basic effects that vary between different magician Disciplines. They are normally a standard action, but if the magician is weaving a spell thread that round the knack can be used as a simple action. This allows a magician to do a little bit of something extra on the rounds they're weaving threads.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:00 am
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etherial wrote: ↑
Sheesh. There is so much I missed in my skimming of the book.Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:06 pm
I think the new Cantrip Knacks will go a long way in scratching the itch for new Spells, though.Statistics:Posted by Tattered Rags — Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:04 am
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etherial wrote: ↑
This is a fair assessment. Pulling back the curtain a bit...Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:06 pm
I think ultimately it was a mistake to try to cram the PC and GMC back into one book and we're seeing the results of that here.If I had the opportunity to go back to the start, knowing what I know now there are some things I would do differently.
When I was planning things out at the start of this whole thing, I was looking at the ED3 Player's & GM's Companions. The Player's Companion, especially, feels thin to me. The vast majority of the space is taken up with the Adept's Way essays. Including them ran strongly against my goal of minimizing the amount of unnecessary reprinting of material. The essays, while excellent, are fluff and take up a lot of space. The book(s) they appear in are available in PDF. They aren't necessary.
I underestimated what the smaller form factor would do as far as what could fit in the books, and they ended up thicker than I anticipated. Honestly, they are at the limit of what the binder could handle.
There was also the issue of what was promised as far the Kickstarter goes. Because of the campaign's success and stretch goals, certain things were promised and that makes it hard to change course midstream. Having promised a single Companion, we couldn't really break it into two books -- especially with the production delays and related problems.
Don't misunderstand, I'm still proud of the work done so far. I have few complaints as far as the content goes. Production logistics and such... I would go back and change some things if I could.
I really like those.I think the new Cantrip Knacks will go a long way in scratching the itch for new Spells, though.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:43 pm
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Tattered Rags wrote: ↑
I think ultimately it was a mistake to try to cram the PC and GMC back into one book and we're seeing the results of that here. Earthdawn's setting has promised robust Enchanting mechanics for 20 years but never truly delivered. They were supposed to be in the GMG but got cut from there and I think the Devs didn't want to push them back again, knowing that it would be pushed not one book back but four. High Circle Spells have never really been what this game is about, and I think I understand the willingness to push them back in favor of Enchanting.Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:06 pm
Yeah. I can only conjecture based on activity in the forums why this is in there. It's definitely a thing some players want to pursue. But so are spells (more so!).I think the new Cantrip Knacks will go a long way in scratching the itch for new Spells, though.
Statistics:Posted by etherial — Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:06 pm
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Enchanting rules - I have never cared about. So I would have voted to drop them in favor of pretty much anything else - but that's been true for the entirety of my ED fandom, so grains of salt freely distributed.
The really high-level spells ... they've tinkered with the spell mechanics in a couple of pretty significant ways. I'm okay with taking a minute to see how they shake out in play. But not for too long!
Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:44 am
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Bonhumm wrote: ↑
I disagree that these things are useless filler. Creatures, Horrors, masks, etc., are valuable to GMs. This book is meant as a support to both sides of the screen. The idea that these things are available and adaptable from other editions presupposes that those GMs have the time to adapt these things or that they even have access to those books. Why force them to both buy other books and then work to make those work in their game? GMs deserve a companion to their guide just as much as players deserve on to their guide.Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:01 pm
All of this is especially true with half of the book used by relatively useless 'fillers' like new creatures and thread items: we have already tons of those in other editions and those do not require (much) work to be adapted to 4th Edition.Saying that...
Yeah. I can only conjecture based on activity in the forums why this is in there. It's definitely a thing some players want to pursue. But so are spells (more so!).
Talents fit, Knacks fit, creatures fit, Horror fit. These are all things that people will generally go after.
Enchantment is more of a niche support.
Spells: if you've been mildly active of the forums, the lack of spells shouldn't be a surprise. However, yeah, this is the book that should have had it to support the progression of magicians. That said, I want the spells done right. At circle 9, 10, etc., lower circle spells work better now than in previous editions. But with no new stuff, it's a bit lackluster of a presentation for players. They get (awesome) new Talents, but they're missing half their reason for being the Discipline they chose.
To reiterate, though, the spells need to be done right. Sad that they couldn't get it squared away by now, but it is, at least, understandable. Quite a tall order, too, I would guess.
Statistics:Posted by Tattered Rags — Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:06 pm
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Bonhumm wrote: ↑
Basically, the Companion primary function should be to create Canon rules about stuff that cannot be easily adapted from previous edition due to the crucial (but awesome) changes to the rules concerning Successes, Extra Threads and which talents/pool of talents are available to any discipline.
So the Companion should have included:
- Talents, circle bonuses and (new) Talents descriptions for Warden+
- New spells for Warden+
EVERYTHING ELSE was optional, but should probably include:
- Talents knacks + new knacks as skills mechanics
- Ideally, a canon list of talents/circle bonuses for the other 'standard' discipline of previous editions (Boatmen, Purifier, Windmaster etc.) would have been great. I know you guys plan to make an 'Adept's way' in the future but just giving a talent overview would have used like 2 pages per discipline at worst with maybe 4-5 pages for new talents.
- The Enchantment mechanics feels weird in there (although its awesome!) especially since a future 'magic book' is now planned.
All of this is especially true with half of the book used by relatively useless 'fillers' like new creatures and thread items: we have already tons of those in other editions and those do not require (much) work to be adapted to 4th Edition.
Just my 2 copper pieces, otherwise what is actually included in the book looks great so far.
I agree with everything you said Bonhumm.Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:01 pm
Basically, the Companion primary function should be to create Canon rules about stuff that cannot be easily adapted from previous edition due to the crucial (but awesome) changes to the rules concerning Successes, Extra Threads and which talents/pool of talents are available to any discipline.
So the Companion should have included:
- Talents, circle bonuses and (new) Talents descriptions for Warden+
- New spells for Warden+
EVERYTHING ELSE was optional, but should probably include:
- Talents knacks + new knacks as skills mechanics
- Ideally, a canon list of talents/circle bonuses for the other 'standard' discipline of previous editions (Boatmen, Purifier, Windmaster etc.) would have been great. I know you guys plan to make an 'Adept's way' in the future but just giving a talent overview would have used like 2 pages per discipline at worst with maybe 4-5 pages for new talents.
- The Enchantment mechanics feels weird in there (although its awesome!) especially since a future 'magic book' is now planned.
All of this is especially true with half of the book used by relatively useless 'fillers' like new creatures and thread items: we have already tons of those in other editions and those do not require (much) work to be adapted to 4th Edition.
Just my 2 copper pieces, otherwise what is actually included in the book looks great so far.
I want to add im a huge earthdawn fan...i got the PDF, im paying my way to support it.
Enchanting looks complicated but good, and knacks look really good, and the core talents there....
But im saying to the powers that be, you cant say you have had to drop airships, great dragons and caster spells as there was no room, which are all cannon or core rules, to keep in 253 pages of a 438 book... nearly 60% of thread items and monsters, which are so not essential.
Statistics:Posted by Calamrin — Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:40 pm
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Calamrin wrote: ↑
Words actually fail me a little at this point.
Will reserve judgement till ive read the PDF...but its a kick in the teeth for casters.
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:04 am
No new spells?......Words actually fail me a little at this point.
Will reserve judgement till ive read the PDF...but its a kick in the teeth for casters.
Basically, the Companion primary function should be to create Canon rules about stuff that cannot be easily adapted from previous edition due to the crucial (but awesome) changes to the rules concerning Successes, Extra Threads and which talents/pool of talents are available to any discipline.
So the Companion should have included:
- Talents, circle bonuses and (new) Talents descriptions for Warden+
- New spells for Warden+
EVERYTHING ELSE was optional, but should probably include:
- Talents knacks + new knacks as skills mechanics
- Ideally, a canon list of talents/circle bonuses for the other 'standard' discipline of previous editions (Boatmen, Purifier, Windmaster etc.) would have been great. I know you guys plan to make an 'Adept's way' in the future but just giving a talent overview would have used like 2 pages per discipline at worst with maybe 4-5 pages for new talents.
- The Enchantment mechanics feels weird in there (although its awesome!) especially since a future 'magic book' is now planned.
All of this is especially true with half of the book used by relatively useless 'fillers' like new creatures and thread items: we have already tons of those in other editions and those do not require (much) work to be adapted to 4th Edition.
Just my 2 copper pieces, otherwise what is actually included in the book looks great so far.
NO! The Horror book is already the most evil tool ever created for ANY gamemaster of any game
But anyway, the already existing books on both Horrors and Great Dragons are well written, cover pretty much everything and do not require any rules adaptation for 4th Edition. New content might be good but with everything already in the Companion (and everything missing from it) I don't see it as a place for that (hypothetical) content.
Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:01 pm
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