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FASA Games, Inc.FASA Games Forums and News 2025-06-03T00:38:45 http://fasagames.com/forum/app.php/feed/topic/568 2025-06-03T00:38:452025-06-03T00:38:45 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=26037#p26037 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]> audiobookkeeper.rucottagenet.rueyesvision.rueyesvisions.comfactoringfee.rufilmzones.rugadwall.rugaffertape.rugageboard.rugagrule.rugallduct.rugalvanometric.rugangforeman.rugangwayplatform.rugarbagechute.rugardeningleave.rugascautery.rugashbucket.rugasreturn.rugatedsweep.rugaugemodel.rugaussianfilter.rugearpitchdiameter.ru
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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Tue Jun 03, 2025 12:38 am

]]> 2025-05-25T00:48:252025-05-25T00:48:25 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=24009#p24009 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]> сыщи487.3NormBettБараReflLoveRainГель(190ГейсТустNissBeneXVIIGardЗайлMobyПросоднаСудеГуль98-0
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Statistics:Posted by yankeeschic — Sun May 25, 2025 12:48 am

]]> 2017-12-01T03:40:472017-12-01T03:40:47 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4724#p4724 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]> Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:40 am

]]> 2017-12-01T02:22:192017-12-01T02:22:19 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4721#p4721 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]>
etherial wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:34 am
I do hope there's a stone tablet somewhere with the list of things to systematize for ED5.
Fifth Edition?

*Outburst that is either hysterical weeping, or cackling mania. You can't tell.*

Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:22 am

]]> 2017-12-01T00:34:102017-12-01T00:34:10 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4713#p4713 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]>
Mataxes wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:14 pm
This isn't intended as a sleight against the work done back in those days, by the way. There are enough examples in the forums of the same cropping up and biting my ass as well (Re: do you need to Item History "blank" key knowledge ranks on a thread item?), so I'm hardly one to talk.
I do hope there's a stone tablet somewhere with the list of things to systematize for ED5.

Statistics:Posted by etherial — Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:34 am

]]> 2017-11-30T23:14:342017-11-30T23:14:34 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4712#p4712 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]> Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:14 pm

]]> 2017-11-30T21:14:112017-11-30T21:14:11 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4711#p4711 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]>
etherial wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:51 pm
...indicating a deliberate change by RedBrick to not apply these penalties to defensive tests.
Weeeell.... that's assuming it wasn't a decision made based on (unexamined) assumptions about the way things worked.

This isn't intended as a sleight against the work done back in those days, by the way. There are enough examples in the forums of the same cropping up and biting my ass as well (Re: do you need to Item History "blank" key knowledge ranks on a thread item?), so I'm hardly one to talk.

To answer the question, at my table I've generally applied penalties to "action" rolls as well as "effect" rolls, if only for consistency and ease. After a little bit of consideration, I recognize the point of view of the arguments on each side, and I don't think it makes a huge mechanical difference one way or the other, as long as you're consistent at your own table.

Which, yeah, doesn't make it any easier for somebody trying to code a character sheet for a VTT, but... *shrug* I've got other plates in the air.

Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:14 pm

]]> 2017-11-30T20:50:032017-11-30T20:50:03 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4710#p4710 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]>
I did do something in 3E that helped though. All Damage tests have a minimum result of the Damage Bonus (Weapon's Damage Step or Spell's Damage bonus). Broadswords always deal 5+ damage on a hit, Earthdarts always deal at least 3. It helped a bit, and made armor a bit more important. Not sure if I want to run it that way for 4E yet, what with the extra successes mechanic and removal of all or nothing armor defeating hits.

Statistics:Posted by Telarus — Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:50 pm

]]> 2017-11-30T19:51:152017-11-30T19:51:15 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4707#p4707 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]>
ChrisDDickey wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:08 pm
Following is a partial list of things that impose penalties to "Action tests".
paralytic poison's (GM guide 172 and maybe debilitating poison's as well), Air Spear spell, Thunderclap spell, Vertigo spell, Astral Catastrophe spell, Etc.

Just to restate and emphasize specific questions:
What exactly is an Action test and what is not?
When a penalty is applied to "All Tests", do people actually apply the penalty to all tests? Which tests do you exempt or not exempt at your tables?
If somebody is Frightened by the Talent, and needs to make a Willpower test to shake off the effect, do you apply the Frighten penalty to the Willpower test?
How about other resistance type tests?
If somebody was both Frightened and under the Suffocation Spell, would the penalty for being Harried penalize the Willpower roll to stop being Frightened and the penalty for being Frightened penalize the roll to stop Suffocating? And if they were also Battle Shouted, would it penalize ether or both?
And Recovery Tests?
Are debilitating poisons penalties to all tests or only action tests? Do they penalize tests to further resist the poison? And Recovery Tests?
I had a vague recollection that Action Tests might have been defined somewhere back in ED1 for the sole purpose of differentiating them from the dice rolled during character creation. While ED1 more or less does define Action dice this way, the term "Action Test" does not appear in the descriptions of any of those things in ED1/2. I suspect RedBrick introduced the term in EDC, but I don't have those books.

Here is the definition in ED3:
RedBrick, Ltd., on ED3G14, wrote:Whenever a character attempts to take an action such as casting a spell, swinging a sword at an opponent, tracking a Horror, or flirting with a barmaid, the gamemaster or the player rolls dice to determine the action's outcome. These dice rolls are called Action Tests.
I'd say this is in line with the general consensus that Action Test = dice rolled to deliberately do a thing. Poisons and Vertigo both caused Penalties to all Tests back in ED1/2, indicating a deliberate change by RedBrick to not apply these penalties to defensive tests.

Statistics:Posted by etherial — Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:51 pm

]]> 2017-11-30T04:47:472017-11-30T04:47:47 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4703#p4703 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]>

You will play as you want, but why your slowed moves because of pain (Wound, or too little space - Harried) would affect attacking abilities but not how hard you hit? That is an absurd.

Statistics:Posted by RazanMG — Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:47 am

]]> 2017-11-29T22:22:242017-11-29T22:22:24 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4697#p4697 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]>
We dont do double negatives with actions and effects generally...it leads to horrible circumstances where one minute you are ok, take a decent hit and suddenly pretty much useless... its just the way we do it/read it... its more fun to play a wounded animal on the battlefield than to suddenly feel generally useless.

Statistics:Posted by Calamrin — Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:22 pm

]]> 2017-11-29T19:31:412017-11-29T19:31:41 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4692#p4692 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]> You then hit barely because of debuffs, so 1 success.
Afterwards you subtract all debuffs from the "how hard did you hit" again? But then debuffs scale pretty hard because they debuff twice..?

Statistics:Posted by Aegharan — Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:31 pm

]]> 2017-11-29T16:04:422017-11-29T16:04:42 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4685#p4685 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]> All test are penalized (so Effect tests also) unless it doesnt makes sense like:
- penalties to resist Poison other than from Wounds (or something that weakens the body), so no penalties from Battle Bellow, Harried and the like.


Initiative is the test that you always have to subtract penalties from Step "...A character’s Initiative Step cannot voluntarily be lowered below Step 1."PG p.372


Something totally new is what Mataxes said:
That test to shake of effect, should not be penalized by that effect (in his example it was Willpower).

Statistics:Posted by RazanMG — Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:04 pm

]]> 2017-11-29T15:39:302017-11-29T15:39:30 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4683#p4683 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]> Statistics:Posted by Calamrin — Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:39 pm

]]> 2017-11-29T06:19:122017-11-29T06:19:12 http://fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568&p=4680#p4680 <![CDATA[Re: Penalties to "all tests" vs "action tests" vs Resistance tests.]]>
badlore wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:22 pm
Action Tests do not include Effect Tests or Damage Tests (which are Effect Tests).
...
Our interpretation is that "All Tests" or just "tests" is shorthand for "All Action Tests" so excludes "Effect Tests". If you assume "all tests" those things become doubly punitive over everything mentioning "Action Tests" and it seems inconsistent that the things you mentioned should be so.
Mataxes posted that he agreed with the quote above, and it really rocked how our table looked at things.

However while looking for something else in the old forums I stumbled upon the following old quote.
http://fasagames.com/archiveforum/viewt ... low#p14555
Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ
Postby Mataxes » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:09 am

"Action test" (most often just "test") means all tests.

Certain kinds of tests that are subsets of Action tests. For example: Effect tests, Damage tests, Initiative tests, Attack tests.
So these seem contradictory.
Is this something that has evolved over time while it used to be that Action Tests meant "all tests" and Effect Tests were a subset of that, and that it has changed and now Effect Tests are not affected by things that affect Action Tests?
Are all tests Action Tests, and Effect tests are a subset of that, or Are Effect Tests not Action Tests?
Which of the two answers above is currently considered more correct?

Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:19 am

]]>