In my opinion it is almost a disadvantage if a talent is not in you option pool but in your fixed list at a fixed circle.
I agree that it is good to limit the availability somewhat to a certain power level.
I allow however the exchange for a talent option from your pool. (Also in circle 1!) Together with the regular option you have enough choice and no further picks are permitted.
Statistics:Posted by Lursi — Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:38 pm
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With this proposal devaluing Versatility and skills, I'd not be in favor of allowing it, but I guess you see what your table agrees to...
Statistics:Posted by Aegharan — Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:52 am
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Players that do want it all, have to multi-discipline their characters, which is expensive and slows development more than they might wish. These proposals seem like an attempt at a somewhat cheaper alternative to multi-disciplining to get access to more talents, allowing you to build your character slightly wider, but not as wide as multi-disciplining. Many a time I have agonized over which talent options to choose, and wishing to choose more than is allowed.
I really like sigfriedmcwild's idea of letting them pick up extra additional talents only from lower tiers, but paying for them at higher tier cost.
When in journeyman tier, being allowed to pick up a discipline talent, one journeyman tier optional talent, plus yet another novice tier optional talent, paying for all three at Jouneyman rates, sounds like a fair and balanced way to ease the quandary. (assuming you agree that the quandary must be eased).
Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:36 am
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alternately, as mentioned... you can always multi-discipline
Statistics:Posted by Sharkforce — Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:25 am
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sigfriedmcwild wrote: ↑
This is already allowed. Most players won't, though, because the Journeyman options are (broadly speaking) more powerful/better than the Novice by design.Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:52 pm
Maybe you could allow people to pick extra talents from the options for the previous tier (so Novice can't, Journeyman gets to pick from Novice, and so on)Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:07 am
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sigfriedmcwild wrote: ↑
This seems reasonable. I’d also see giving a free skill rank at every circle, increasing the beginning free skill ranks, or just being generous with LP. It shouldn’t compete it’s versatility. Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:52 pm
Maybe you could allow people to pick extra talents from the options for the previous tier (so Novice can't, Journeyman gets to pick from Novice, and so on)I’m in the game with the unlimited talent options and I don’t really care for it.
*edit don’t care for the house rule, not the game
Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:48 pm
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This maintains the hard choices at each tier that sharkforce mentions and (if you cost the new talents for the current tier) keeps the cost roughly in line with things like a second discipline. It also completely sidesteps the question of someone running out of talent options by buying too many talents too early.
I would still avoid mixing this with the all talents to advance option, although with the costing I suggest above it may be ok
Statistics:Posted by sigfriedmcwild — Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:52 pm
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it will be stronger, because versatility is a form of power, and people aren't going to take an optional ability that they don't think is worth taking so they're only getting good stuff. that will of course be mitigated by cost, but still i expect a net gain.
it may also very slightly unbalance some things, though it's hard to say by how much.
consider the difference between, say.... elementalist (most of their options do different things from each other and/or add to things that the base discipline does not help with, although some of them could certainly be replaced with skills) as compared to warrior (2 talents that are extremely similar, a third that can only work in combination with one of those talents, 2 forms of combat that compete with the warrior's primary option for combat, and a talent that does nothing if the warrior decides not to use a shield) at first circle.
obviously, neither of them are forced to take *every* option, but the elementalist practically speaking has more useful options than the warrior. additionally, some of those options the elementalist might urgently want to take and would otherwise be in competition with each other (extra matrix or avoid blow at circle 1 is a difficult choice).
might i suggest that you look at the skills chapter and see which, if any, of the player's optional talents could have instead been skills? that would seem to sidestep the entire issue, and obviously places an increased cost on gaining the greater options to help compensate for the greater amount of power.
Statistics:Posted by Sharkforce — Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:18 pm
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Statistics:Posted by daniel_a — Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:59 pm
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It went so-so. I did not stay long enough to figure out if there was any major issue with that for the balance but it was definitely adding a layer of complexity. Personally I would advise against it but this is up to the GM of course.
Such a rule, however, could conflict with the official optional rule of 'using all talents to advance' because you could end up with taking all the talent options that you care about at the first circle and then none later; thus forcing you to level up the Discipline talent of each Circle instead of a talent that you really care about for progression.
Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:15 pm
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Statistics:Posted by Belenus — Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:40 pm
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Cheers,
Daniel
Statistics:Posted by daniel_a — Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:19 pm
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