Fading Suns Player's Guide (Revised Edition)

Discussion on the Fading Suns game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
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Bearman
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Re: Fading Suns Player's Guide (Revised Edition)

Postby Bearman » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:25 am

Hi,

Just thought I'd bug you with 2 very minor issues as well - seeing as you're collocting the stuff in this thread.

I don't think they've been mentioned here before so here goes:

P. 168 under Physical Science the entry for "Physics" is there twice.
P. 313 under the Gatling Laser entry says that it fires "up to shots" where I guess the number of shots is missing.

Like I said: minor issues but if you're looking into an errata document and/or corrections for the complete pdf I thought you might like to know. Or maybe you've found them already :-)

Cheers!

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Anunnaki
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Re: Fading Suns Player's Guide (Revised Edition)

Postby Anunnaki » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:33 am

Thanks Bearman!

azogouhl
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Re: Fading Suns Player's Guide (Revised Edition)

Postby azogouhl » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:01 pm

Few things I stumbled across that have yet to be mentioned.

Kraxi Rapid Strike p.242
"When using a knife (melee weapon size 3 or smaller) in an attack..."
Should the 3 be small or medium? Knives are listed as small on p.286, but hollow knives, daggers, and trench knives are listed as medium. Also, medium is the 3rd weapon size: XS, S, M, L, XL.

Basket Hilted Guard p.289
"Bladed weapons fitted with a basket-Hilted Guard grants a +2 goal bonus against being disarmed."
On the Accessories chart this item is listed as giving +1 Defense. Which of these is correct? Also can this only be applied to bladed weapons? (the b of basket in the description is also not capitalized)

Concussion Grenade p.314
"If struck in the blast of a Concussion Grenade, the character suffer a Knockout attack. Armor does not protect against concussion grenades, except for full-body suits, in which case the shock wave is deflected as normal. Energy Shields protect as normal."
The listing for the concussion grenades on the chart has them doing KO damage. Does this mean they force the check, but allow the victim to make rolls every round? If so, why discuss armor/shields in the description? I am currently giving them 12 dice for the knockout effect.

Also, just something I think that seems a little off but may have been intended.
The Purchasing Power of the Firebird p.253
"For each Tech Level above the world’s Tech Level the item cost is doubled; equally, for each level below a world’s Tech Level, the item’s cost is halved."
I am using this text as written for character creation but limiting it's effect for in play purchases. I was wondering if this was intended, as characters from high TL planets can essentially afford large amounts of high tech gadgets for next to nothing.

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Angelman
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Re: Fading Suns Player's Guide (Revised Edition)

Postby Angelman » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:41 am

Hi there, azogouhl,
I'll venture a an answer to these as I wrote the stuff chapter.

Kraxi Rapid Strike, knifes, and size: I am not sure about this one (don't have the books with me).

Basket-hilt: The Defense Stat was a late development and constituted a radical change of direction to the rules (i.e. simplification). As such the new Defense thing trumps older rules where such things carry over. (Also, as far as I can remember, there are no such skill rolls as disarm, dodge, or parry anymore, which renders the +2 bonus moot). Furthermore, a basket-hilt can be used with blade and blade-analogue weapons (including flux swords and the like). You can’t use it with an ax or mace for instance, as such weapons work differently. Arguably, you could use a basket-hilt with such things as a tazer, a stun-baton, or any one-handed pointy thing grasped at one end and the reverse end used for stabbing/slicing.

Concussion Grenade: I’m sorry, I do not understand the issue here. Have I missed something? The text is intended to say that a concussion grenade cause KO unless you’re protected by a full-body suit armor (i.e. space suit or similar). If you wear partial armor, the concussion grenade will get you where it hurts, so to speak (i.e. ignoing any armor protection). As for energy shields, they deflect a KO just as any other attack. Please clarify, for I’m too close to the text to see the holes.

Cheaper high-tech on ultrahigh TL worlds: Yes this was intentional, although in hindsight it was perhaps not very well thought through. You are right that this could seriously unbalance the game by allowing people to buy, say, a Ceramsteel Exoframe armor (i.e. power armor) on Criticorum for a mere 500fb (original cost 2000fb). A synthsilk suit would on Criticorum cost 37,5 fb (originally 300), and a Jahnisak 0,40 machinegun 43,75 fb (originally 700fb)… Yes, this is definitely off. Good catch, and you did the right thing - if something looks odd or doesn’t fit your way of doing Fading Suns, then please do change it (and tell us about it). The intention was to make low tech stuff plentiful and cheap on high-tech worlds, but the implications are, as you point out, graver still. That said, I think I remember writing that the GM should take the prices as very loose guidelines and stick to them only if it makes sense – at least I hope I put that in there :p
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azogouhl
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Re: Fading Suns Player's Guide (Revised Edition)

Postby azogouhl » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:16 pm

Angelman wrote:...(Also, as far as I can remember, there are no such skill rolls as disarm, dodge, or parry anymore, which renders the +2 bonus moot)...
Disarm rules are on p.233 under Combat Actions. I think I'll just stick with keeping the disarm bonus and only applying the +1 defense to melee/unarmed attacks, instead of as a general defense bonus, as I assume was intended.

Angelman wrote:...The text is intended to say that a concussion grenade cause KO...
I suppose I was trying to draw a parallel between the grenade and the Knockout rules on p.233. The KO rules in the combat section rely on a damage threshold and a roll to determine if someone was knocked out. Then the duration of the KO is determined by the amount of KO damage done over that threshold or a flat duration for a critical failure on their Vigor check. I guess you could just use the latter.
As far as armor/shields I guess I can see what was intended. Sealed armors and energy shields protect completely under either of the circumstances. I assume in this case the shield would still be required to check for broad impact overload?

For now I think I'll just use the flat duration for inconsequential encounters and roll 12 'KO' dice versus important NPC's and characters.

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Angelman
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Re: Fading Suns Player's Guide (Revised Edition)

Postby Angelman » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:30 pm

azogouhl wrote:As far as armor/shields I guess I can see what was intended. Sealed armors and energy shields protect completely under either of the circumstances. I assume in this case the shield would still be required to check for broad impact overload?
I assume this to be the case as well :) A shock blast attack definitelly sound like a broad impact.

I must confess I do not know our rules very well (as I was involved in rules writing at a much earlier stage of the development and never had the time to keep up with the later rewrites), but I assume all rules for KO attack applies if the concussion grenade blast strikes a character with partial armor (i.e. ignore armor completely). I would also assume that the DMG of the concussion grenade was used to determine KO effect as per the usual rules, although this is a guess on my part.
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azogouhl
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Re: Fading Suns Player's Guide (Revised Edition)

Postby azogouhl » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:53 pm

Angelman wrote:I would also assume that the DMG of the concussion grenade was used to determine KO effect as per the usual rules
Which brings me back to the problem of the concussion grenade having no listed damage.

I apologize for being so persistent. I have some very rules-centric players that have recently joined my group and I've been house ruling things as they pop up. Just wanted you guys to be aware of them too. :)

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Angelman
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Re: Fading Suns Player's Guide (Revised Edition)

Postby Angelman » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:30 pm

azogouhl wrote:Which brings me back to the problem of the concussion grenade having no listed damage.
Ah! Now I get the problem. I didn't catch in the first post that the problem was that there is no DMG listed - my bad.

When last I worked with rules, and wrote the 'weapons and stuff' chapter, Concussion Grenades had a DMG score. Why this fell away at some point, I do not know. It might simply be a typo mistake that occured at some point, or possibly someone changed it intentionally (for whatever reason) - it is more than likely that it was I who dropped the ball at some point (there were lots of details to juggle). I would set the DMG to about 10d, although 12d works as well.
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Bogie
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Re: Fading Suns Player's Guide (Revised Edition)

Postby Bogie » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:13 pm

I'll take a look at that too. 10d sounds pretty good to me.
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Re: Fading Suns Player's Guide (Revised Edition)

Postby Bogie » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:04 pm

Dropped this to 8d since armor does not protect.
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